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Thread: Baloney Detection Kit for Vegans

  1. #16
    Protist-Based Person The.Protist's Avatar
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    You could have examples of abrogating each tenet, maybe?
    --
    The Protist
    "Love is like seaweed; even if you have pushed it away, you will not prevent it from coming back." --Nigerian Proverb

  2. #17
    Anti-anti-vacccine Dandelion's Avatar
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    Ok, I got a designer on board and we're set to finish these by the end of October! I need this text yesterday! I'll continue to document my progress here. If anybody feels like comment please feel free!

    What is a science?
    • A method of testing reality
    • Peer review
    • Consensus & meta-analysis
    • Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence

    What is a credible source?
    • An expert in a field of study related to the claim.
    • Qualified by a reputable institution.
    • Willing to change their mind according to new evidence.
    • Clearly states any potential conflict of interest.

    What is a credible claim?
    • Is there evidence?
    • Can be tested through experiments others can also try.
    • Many other credible sources agree.

    What are Fallacies?
    • An incorrect argument
    Common Examples:
    • Argument from authority
    • Appeal to nature
    •etc
    It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness.

  3. #18
    half a block from Normal Emiloid's Avatar
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    I would edit the fallacies section to say they are "Incorrect or misleading arguments". Sometimes a fallacy involves factual/correct info that is not relevant... but is treated as if it is. There might be a more succinct way to say it than what I wrote, but I wanted to get the idea out there.
    wocka wocka wocka

  4. #19
    Anti-anti-vacccine Dandelion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emiloid View Post
    I would edit the fallacies section to say they are "Incorrect or misleading arguments". Sometimes a fallacy involves factual/correct info that is not relevant... but is treated as if it is. There might be a more succinct way to say it than what I wrote, but I wanted to get the idea out there.
    Good point, thanks! I'm starting to get worried that this isn't gonna fit on a small enough pamphlet.

    What is a science?
    • A method of testing reality
    • Peer review
    • Consensus & meta-analysis
    • Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence

    What is a credible source?
    • An expert in a field of study related to the claim.
    • Qualified by a reputable institution.
    • Willing to change their mind according to new evidence.
    • Clearly states any potential conflict of interest.

    What is a credible claim?
    • Is there evidence?
    • Can be tested through experiments others can also try.
    • Many other credible sources agree.

    What are Fallacies?
    • Incorrect or misleading arguments
    Common Examples:
    • Argument from authority
    • Appeal to nature
    •etc
    It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness.

  5. #20
    Protist-Based Person The.Protist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dandelion View Post
    What is a credible claim?
    • Is there evidence?
    I don't like how this answers a question with a question. Especially as it can be rewritten easily as a statement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dandelion View Post
    What are Fallacies?
    • Incorrect or misleading arguments
    Common Examples:
    I learned one shouldn't have only one bullet in a section. It kind of defeats the purpose of bulleting it.
    --
    The Protist
    "Love is like seaweed; even if you have pushed it away, you will not prevent it from coming back." --Nigerian Proverb

  6. #21
    If this pamphlet is supposed to reach people who don't know what a credible source is, I think the terms "argument from authority" and "appeal to nature" might be confusing. But I'm not sure how to explain them succinctly enough to fit.

  7. #22
    Anti-anti-vacccine Dandelion's Avatar
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    Thanks for your comments but everything here is just raw material so far. Grammar and wording is still up for grabs. I'm on the content part.

    I'm starting to get worried that This won't fit on a business card format. I wonder if it even is something people would want to carry around.
    It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness.

  8. #23
    Android typo queen vegankitty's Avatar
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    About appeal to nature - is saying something is natural ALWAYS wrong? For example, is saying some animals are carnivores a fallacy?

  9. #24
    Anti-anti-vacccine Dandelion's Avatar
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    I think Shermer's take is the closest to Sagan's original but I still find it a bit abstruse. I'm wondering if i could reword and boil it down further maybe by defining a few key terms up front. Much of the BDk is just explaining the steps of science. I wonder if by doing that i'm undoing the point of the BDK which is making science palatable. BAH!


    SHERMER: 1. How reliable is the source of the claim?
    REWRITE: Is the source science-based and independent?

    SHERMER: 2.Does the source make similar claims?
    REWRITE:

    
SHERMER: 3. Have the claims been verified by somebody else?
    REWRITE: Do many other experts agree?


    SHERMER: 4. Does this fit with the way the world works?

    REWRITE:

    SHERMER: 5. Has anyone tried to disprove the claim?
    REWRITE:

    
SHERMER: 6. Where does the preponderance of evidence point?
    REWRITE: Does the majority of evidence support the claim?

    
SHERMER: 7. Is the claimant playing by the rules of science?

    REWRITE: #1

    SHERMER: 8. Is the claimant providing positive evidence?

    REWRITE: Is there evidence in favor of the claim?

    SHERMER: 9. Does the new theory account for as many phenomena as the old theory?

    REWRITE:

    SHERMER: 10. Are personal beliefs driving the claim?
    REWRITE: #1

    -----

    Science is a method of finding out what is true through testable observations.
    Scientists (experts) are trained in a particular field of study and base their opinions on good science.
    Baloney may look and sounds like science but is not true.

    Ask yourself these questions to determine how baloney something might be:

    Is there evidence in favor of the claim?
    Does the majority of evidence support the claim?
    Is the source science-based and independent?
    Does the claimant benefit from the claim?
    Does a majority of experts agree?


    Some quote fodder:
    "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"- Carl Sagan
    "Science is the poetry of reality" - Richard Dawkins
    "Keep an open mind – but not so open that your brain falls out" - Richard Feynman
    "Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself. The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool." - Richard Feynman
    It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness.

  10. #25
    half a block from Normal Emiloid's Avatar
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    Dandy, have you looked around for something similar to this that may already exist? It doesn't seem like something that is specific to living animal-free... maybe some other group (pro-science, education, philosophy, skeptics?) has developed a list like this which you could use as a template or something. Just a thought.
    wocka wocka wocka

  11. #26
    Plant-Based Person Lentil's Avatar
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    I was just thinking, maybe this would be better as an iPhone app rather than printed material? Not quite sure how it would work..

  12. #27
    Anti-anti-vacccine Dandelion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emiloid View Post
    Dandy, have you looked around for something similar to this that may already exist? It doesn't seem like something that is specific to living animal-free... maybe some other group (pro-science, education, philosophy, skeptics?) has developed a list like this which you could use as a template or something. Just a thought.
    Yeah, I have and the closest I've come is the Sense About Science group. Their publications are lengthy and kinda dry and also a bit cultural specific (and spendy). As far as I know this is unchartered territory.
    It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness.

  13. #28
    Anti-anti-vacccine Dandelion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lentil View Post
    I was just thinking, maybe this would be better as an iPhone app rather than printed material? Not quite sure how it would work..
    I actually have plans to make this an interactive website!
    It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness.

  14. #29
    Anti-anti-vacccine Dandelion's Avatar
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    This could never be comprehensive enough to fit on a business card much less a 10 page pamphlet (ohhh good idea) so I think I'll try to get to the very bare essentials with a smattering of logical fallacies exemplified as "red flags" and customizing it to the vegan audience. There are a handful used over and over so if I could get the top 5 or whatever and make it interesting enough for people to follow the URL back to the comprehensive version it would be #WIN enough for me.

    If you have any fallacies that you've heard which I haven't caught please let me know. Also I'm in critique mode so any language or grammar is up for grabs. Any help would be appreciated as we are pioneering a form of outreach targeted to a niche audience that to my knowledge hasn't been attempted before! thanks!

    text in {} are notes and won't be included on final
    ------------------

    Science is a method of finding out what is true through testable observations.
    Scientists (experts) are trained in a particular field of study and base their opinions on good science.
    Evidence is gained knowledge through good scientific methods. The more the better.
    Baloney may look and sounds like science but is flawed.

    Ask yourself these questions to determine how baloney something might be:

    Is there evidence in favor of the claim?
    Does the majority of evidence support the claim?
    Is the source science-based and independent?
    Does the claimant benefit from the claim?
    Does a majority of experts agree?

    Red flags to watch out for:
    "natural" {appeal to nature}
    "people have been doing this for thousands of years" {appeal to tradition}
    "conspiracy" {ad hominem?}
    "trust me I'm an authority" {argument from authority}
    Personal anecdotes or testimonials {Post hoc, ergo propter hoc}
    Single study or small sample size.
    "You're with us or against us" {false dichotomy}
    cure-alls
    vague terms like "support", "boost" or "energy"{weasel words}

    {Some quote fodder:}
    "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"- Carl Sagan
    "Keep an open mind – but not so open that your brain falls out" - Richard Feynman
    It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness.

  15. #30
    half a block from Normal Emiloid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dandelion View Post
    Yeah, I have and the closest I've come is the Sense About Science group. Their publications are lengthy and kinda dry and also a bit cultural specific (and spendy). As far as I know this is unchartered territory.
    I figured you probably would have looked into it.
    wocka wocka wocka

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