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View Full Version : Used Car Leather Seats, What would you do?



budurflyzz
04-06-2005, 05:57 PM
I am getting a VW diesel wagon that I will convert to WVO but am having a hard time finding a wagon without leather seats. I am considering getting one with leather anyway but not sure if I will regret it. I feel like since it is used and I am doing something pretty good by converting it to WVO it is ok, and I would never buy a new car with leather but for some reason this seems ok. Guess I am looking for approval, but I really wonder what other people would do in the same situation. Would you get the used car with leather seats or wait until you found one with cloth seats?

shedonteatmeat
04-06-2005, 06:14 PM
I had this same issue, I choose to wait until I found one with cloth seats. Though... I did get light colored seats and HIGHLY regret that choice.

Adam210
04-06-2005, 06:26 PM
I recently when through the same dilema. The kind of used car I wanted only came with leather. After a lot of flip flopping back and forth I bought it with the leather. I guess I justified it by saying to myself that it is 10 years old, the damage had been done.

I am also one of those people that is wearing out my old leather shoes and not just throwing them out because they are leather.

gladcow
04-06-2005, 06:40 PM
is it leather, or pleather? We have a VW Beetle and the seats are faux leather. I know VW does both...

FalafelsRule
04-06-2005, 07:04 PM
Cars aren't vegan no matter which way you look at it (leather or no leather). Basically, if the car is used, and it has leather seats, I do not see a problem with getting it (other than the fact that leather seats aren't as comfortable as cloth seats). Depending on how far one wants to take their veganism, having no car is more vegan than having one.

Emiloid
04-06-2005, 07:36 PM
This is tough, but unless you're sickened by the idea of sitting on leather, I think it's mainly a matter of what it represents. Of course, used leather doesn't support the industry or directly kill an animal, but it does set a questionable example to people who would look to you and your car as an example. But then again, so does pleather if it's realistic enough. So I guess one issue would be whether you want to have to explain your decision to people who might not appreciate the apparent inconsistency.

On the other hand, if you find the perfect vehicle aside from it having leather seats, you could always swap out the seats later, or reupholster them. If they're in good condition you could sell or give them to someone who might otherwise buy new leather seats, which would be good.

spidermonkey
04-06-2005, 07:43 PM
This is tough, but unless you're sickened by the idea of sitting on leather, I think it's mainly a matter of what it represents. Of course, used leather doesn't support the industry or directly kill an animal, but it does set a questionable example to people who would look to you and your car as an example. But then again, so does pleather if it's realistic enough. So I guess one issue would be whether you want to have to explain your decision to people who might not appreciate the apparent inconsistency.That's basically my feeling too. It's one thing to have leather shoes, seats in a car, etc. prior to going vegan and not wanting to throw them out for economic reasons, but I could never buy leather products as a vegan, especially when there are alternatives. I would never judge others for their decisions, but I personally couldn't do it. :umm:

shedonteatmeat
04-06-2005, 08:11 PM
is it leather, or pleather? We have a VW Beetle and the seats are faux leather. I know VW does both...

I can't wait to trade my beetle in on the convertible and get pleather seats (that my son can't stain! hah!)

.

quagga
04-06-2005, 08:22 PM
I think Emiloid's post puts it perfectly (as usual :) ). I would only add the additional thought--what is the cost to the environment of waiting for the perfect used VW with non-leather seats? Similarly, what is the cost to your morals when you purchase a vehicle with leather seats? As Emiloid writes, the cost for the latter is that you have to explain your decision to people who don't understand. The cost of the former is that you cause more pollution, use more resources, etc.

Personally, I think I'd go for it and put cloth covers over the leather seats. I think a car represents so much more than just its seats--a much bigger statement than leather hiking boots, for example.

I would not purchase a new car with leather seats, however, even if it was a hybrid.

budurflyzz
04-06-2005, 08:42 PM
The cloth seat covers is a good idea. The car is perfect other than the seats. It has had one owner, very low mileage and in perfect condition, but the seats are leather. I will have to think about this some more. I didn't think about what others might think if they saw my car had leather seats. Thanks for your thoughts. I am leaning towards getting it.

spasticastic
04-06-2005, 09:54 PM
It's usually not hard to replace seats. It's usually just laying in the floorboards and taking out bolts. You could get different ones from a junk yard, and give the leather ones away. It should be easy to find seats in a junk yard, because the problem with most junked cars is 1. engine failure and 2. wrecks/structural damage. I would consider it a fun project and you'd feel much better once it was done.

Stitches
04-06-2005, 11:21 PM
My car, which is old, had leather seats when I got it (a year before I went veggie anyway). I hate leather seats - and I hate vinyl seats too. They're hot and sticky and can't handle a fraction of the abuse cloth seats can (I know from experience). My poor old car isn't doing so well and will probably be traded in by the end of the year, and I am getting cloth seats, no matter what it takes.

Ethically, you'd be in the clear. It's just not something I would do because cars with leather heat up like an oven in the CA sun.

9nines
04-07-2005, 07:27 AM
What is WVO, to which you want to convert it?

budurflyzz
04-07-2005, 06:50 PM
What is WVO, to which you want to convert it?

WVO is Waste Vegetable Oil. I am going to convert the diesel engine to run on old vegetable oil from restaurants. Instead of using SVO Straight Vegetable Oil which is unused vegetable oil. I think it's better because the oil has been used already, is going to be thrown out, would end up in the dumps somewhere and I will get it for free. :happy:

budurflyzz
04-07-2005, 06:58 PM
It's usually not hard to replace seats. It's usually just laying in the floorboards and taking out bolts. You could get different ones from a junk yard, and give the leather ones away. It should be easy to find seats in a junk yard, because the problem with most junked cars is 1. engine failure and 2. wrecks/structural damage. I would consider it a fun project and you'd feel much better once it was done.

Thanks for the tips. That's a good idea. When I get the car I will definitely do that. I would feel so much better just getting them out and giving them to someone who would have bought new leather.

Artichoke47
04-11-2005, 06:28 PM
I wonder if someone would attempt to justify buying cow's milk cheese instead of soy cheese with casein, because both are not vegan, so it doesn't matter; right? :rolleyes:

Emiloid
04-11-2005, 08:11 PM
I wonder if someone would attempt to justify buying cow's milk cheese instead of soy cheese with casein, because both are not vegan, so it doesn't matter; right? :rolleyes:
What are you responding to here, Artichoke? :confused:

(Please remember to quote when necessary, folks!)

FalafelsRule
04-11-2005, 08:57 PM
When it comes to cheese, people have a choice since they can actually buy a cheese that is vegan or they can make some that is. There aren't any cars that are vegan. This leaves the consumer with a choice to either buy a car or not buy a car. I'd assume a strict vegan would not buy a car. I am a pretty strict vegan, but I do have a car. Vegans without a car are more strict than I am.

I am not addressing anyone in particular (that is why I did not quote anyone). I am making a general statement.

zatoichi
04-11-2005, 09:27 PM
I wonder if someone would attempt to justify buying cow's milk cheese instead of soy cheese with casein, because both are not vegan, so it doesn't matter; right? :rolleyes:

christ. it's like saying if you take the bus, you're a contributer to pollution, so you might as well own a SUV because that's its moral equivalent. if something is bad, less of that something is less bad, no?

these views aren't necessarily those of the author, vegan represents, or any of its subsidiaries. the purpose of this disclaimer is to parody that of falafelsRule. Let it be understood that we do, in fact, understand that falafelsRule's disclaimer was a parody of disclaimers, rendering this disclaimer, a parody of a parody, quite the basterdized bit of satire

FalafelsRule
04-11-2005, 09:44 PM
if something is bad, less of that something is less bad, no?

I assume that is what she is actually saying. I gather her point is, a car without leather seats is a bit more vegan than one with leather seats. Cars are very un-vegan. A vegan who buys a used car with leather seats is not less of a vegan than one who buys a car without leather seats. Someone who consumes cheese whether it be cow cheese or soy cheese with casein isn't a vegan, since vegan versions are available. Since cars are not vegan; maybe anyone who buys one isn't a vegan. It all comes down to where one draws their line.

zatoichi
04-11-2005, 09:48 PM
oh. my mistake! i just woke up and i guess i sort of processed that all dyslexic. sorry about that. i was being argumentative when we appear to be in complete agreement.

budurflyzz
04-12-2005, 12:21 PM
I wonder if someone would attempt to justify buying cow's milk cheese instead of soy cheese with casein, because both are not vegan, so it doesn't matter; right? :rolleyes:

Not sure what your comment is for. Cow's milk cheese and soy cheese w/ casein have vegan alternatives, but car's do not (other than not having one which is not something I can do).
But maybe you are one of the righteous pure vegans. No car, no electricity, never watch movies, never take pictures with film, don't ride the bus.
But for me, I do all those things.

Emiloid
04-12-2005, 01:38 PM
It's definitely hard to be "pure", and where we each draw the line is our own choice. We need to respect each other's decisions.

Artichoke47
04-12-2005, 02:07 PM
My point has been made, hasn't been (and won't be) refuted, and I have no reason to be defensive, like others, and make rude comments. So carry on and have fun. No shoving happens in my household. :)

jenzie
04-12-2005, 04:44 PM
*carrying on and having fun*

I say get the car! You're going to make it super enviro friendly, and it's not like by getting it you're creating a demand to kill cows for leather. The person selling you the car isn't sitting in their living room, rubbing their hands together saying, "Exxxxcellent, she's going to buy leather! Score one for the omnivores!" :p Besides, as has already been mentioned, you can replace or cover the seats if you want/if it'll be an issue.

Of course, I'm also one of those crazy vegans that buys books (glue!), watches movies, and still has an old pair of Docs in the closet... so my opinion shouldn't be trusted. ;)

Alfiedog
04-13-2005, 03:22 PM
I finally was able to buy the car I've wanted for years. The problem was it didn't come in non-leather seats. I spent a few months going back and forth on whether I should buy it or not, and I did. I thought I'd just replace the leather seats. That turned out to not make much sense as it's $3,000 which I didn't have after buying the car. And anyway if I did have the money, it would have probably been better off going to an animal organization.

From personal experience, I can tell you that not a day goes by that I don't think about what a hypocrite I am and how many cows went into those seats and how I am sitting on dead cows. How am I better than someone who buys a fur coat because they are vain or it 'looks good'??? I feel stupid putting AR or veggie stickers on my cars because no doubt someone will see them and say "oh right. They have leather seats."

The only way I can rationalize it is that it was a used car and at least I didn't buy it new.

jenzie
04-13-2005, 04:09 PM
I finally was able to buy the car I've wanted for years. The problem was it didn't come in non-leather seats. I spent a few months going back and forth on whether I should buy it or not, and I did. I thought I'd just replace the leather seats. That turned out to not make much sense as it's $3,000 which I didn't have after buying the car. And anyway if I did have the money, it would have probably been better off going to an animal organization.

From personal experience, I can tell you that not a day goes by that I don't think about what a hypocrite I am and how many cows went into those seats and how I am sitting on dead cows. How am I better than someone who buys a fur coat because they are vain or it 'looks good'??? I feel stupid putting AR or veggie stickers on my cars because no doubt someone will see them and say "oh right. They have leather seats."

The only way I can rationalize it is that it was a used car and at least I didn't buy it new.

I don't think you should beat yourself up that much. And the comparison to the fur coat doesn't really work unless you bought the car because you like the way the seats look (which doesn't seem to be the case). Anywho... just put some seat covers on (or find new seats at a scrap yard) and go to town with the veggie stickers! :)

jenzie
04-13-2005, 04:12 PM
P.S. Maybe it's just me, but when I see AR/veg stickers on a car I think "Rock on!" I don't go and inspect the car to check for leather seats, etc. Also... if it's an issue of what "others" think... well first of all, who cares? Secondly, most omnis don't connect the dots with being veg and having leather seats in your car. So... yeah.

Alfiedog
04-13-2005, 05:42 PM
Thanks Jenzie! But I don't know . . . It's had to say it's okay when I do know better. The truth is that there are hundreds of cars that I could have chosen.

I don't know if people actually check out cars but I've been on demos and people go "you are wearing leather shoes" and I don't!

budurflyzz
04-14-2005, 12:10 AM
I ended up getting an '83 Mercedes Wagon that has cloth seats. It is already converted to run on WVO and the person that sold it to us, hooked us up with an oil source and filtering system. Pretty awesome.

Alfiedog-It is hard to know just by looking if something is leather or pleather so I doubt anyone walking by would be sure what it really is. Go crazy with the stickers and if it really bugs you put seat covers on.

jenzie
04-14-2005, 12:30 AM
I ended up getting an '83 Mercedes Wagon that has cloth seats. It is already converted to run on WVO and the person that sold it to us, hooked us up with an oil source and filtering system. Pretty awesome.

Cool! Congrats on the new ride, it sounds fantastic! :D

Emiloid
04-14-2005, 12:42 AM
I ended up getting an '83 Mercedes Wagon that has cloth seats. It is already converted to run on WVO and the person that sold it to us, hooked us up with an oil source and filtering system. Pretty awesome.Sounds great! Plus, you don't have to convert it yourself. I guess that could be fun, though.

Chijou_no_seiza
04-14-2005, 01:04 AM
Absolutely not! I was not going to spend my hard earned money on a car with leather. My used car was a good price, reasonably efficient, and leatherfree.

Artichoke47
04-14-2005, 08:46 AM
I also think it should be noted that used cars have different resell values, just as new cars have values. If more people refused to buy used cars with leather, new car purchasers might be hesitant to buy them, knowing that they will get less out of the car or it will take longer to resell when they are "done" with it. I know that I take resell value into consideration when buying a car, and I know others who do as well.

Emiloid
04-14-2005, 02:02 PM
If more people refused to buy used cars with leather, new car purchasers might be hesitant to buy them....That's a good point, but probably won't be a reality any time soon. However, I'm a huge fan of helping a movement reach critical mass, so I'm certainly not disparaging the idea. We should always work for what we hope to see someday, regardless of how long it might take our ideals to catch on.

Alfiedog
04-14-2005, 06:59 PM
I also think it should be noted that used cars have different resell values, just as new cars have values. If more people refused to buy used cars with leather, new car purchasers might be hesitant to buy them, knowing that they will get less out of the car or it will take longer to resell when they are "done" with it. I know that I take resell value into consideration when buying a car, and I know others who do as well.

That's a really good point. Unfortunately it does away with my 'at least it's a used car' rationale:(