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kimmysoo
09-01-2004, 02:07 PM
My boyfriend and I are pretty close to getting engaged and we've been talking about my engagement/wedding ring. After seeing reports on TV and doing some of my own research, I've decided I'm not entirely comfortable with wearing a diamond because of the way they're mined/produced and just the whole commercialism of diamond engagement rings - two months salary my a$$!

Anyway, I'd love to hear from others in similar situations or if anyone thinks I'm making too big of a deal about it. Also, any ideas on alternatives? I was thinking of cubic zirconia in a custom setting... something we design ourselves maybe. I can't find any info on "ethical diamonds." Hrmmm... maybe I should've made this a poll. :confused:

For background info, I found the below during a quick internet search just now:

Ten Reasons Why You Should Never Accept a Diamond Ring from Anyone, Under Any Circumstances, Even If They Really Want to Give You One (2-14-02) By Liz Stanton, CPE Staff Economist

1. You've Been Psychologically Conditioned To Want a Diamond The diamond engagement ring is a 63-year-old invention of N.W.Ayer advertising agency. The De Beers diamond cartel contracted N.W.Ayer to create a demand for what are, essentially, useless hunks of rock.

2. Diamonds are Priced Well Above Their Value The De Beers cartel has systematically held diamond prices at levels far greater than their abundance would generate under anything even remotely resembling perfect competition. All diamonds not already under its control are bought by the cartel, and then the De Beers cartel carefully managed world diamond supply in order to keep prices steadily high.

3. Diamonds Have No Resale or Investment Value Any diamond that you buy or receive will indeed be yours forever: De Beers? advertising deliberately brain-washed women not to sell; the steady price is a tool to prevent speculation in diamonds; and no dealer will buy a diamond from you. You can only sell it at a diamond purchasing center or a pawn shop where you will receive a tiny fraction of its original "value."

4. Diamond Miners are Disproportionately Exposed to HIV/AIDS Many diamond mining camps enforce all-male, no-family rules. Men contract HIV/AIDS from camp sex-workers, while women married to miners have no access to employment, no income outside of their husbands and no bargaining power for negotiating safe sex, and thus are at extremely high risk of contracting HIV.

5. Open-Pit Diamond Mines Pose Environmental Threats Diamond mines are open pits where salts, heavy minerals, organisms, oil, and chemicals from mining equipment freely leach into ground-water, endangering people in nearby mining camps and villages, as well as downstream plants and animals.

6. Diamond Mine-Owners Violate Indigenous People's Rights Diamond mines in Australia, Canada, India and many countries in Africa are situated on lands traditionally associated with indigenous peoples. Many of these communities have been displaced, while others remain, often at great cost to their health, livelihoods and traditional cultures.

7. Slave Laborers Cut and Polish Diamonds More than one-half of the world's diamonds are processed in India where many of the cutters and polishers are bonded child laborers. Bonded children work to pay off the debts of their relatives, often unsuccessfully. When they reach adulthood their debt is passed on to their younger siblings or to their own children.

8. Conflict Diamonds Fund Civil Wars in Africa There is no reliable way to insure that your diamond was not mined or stolen by government or rebel military forces in order to finance civil conflict. Conflict diamonds are traded either for guns or for cash to pay and feed soldiers.

9. Diamond Wars are Fought Using Child Warriors Many diamond producing governments and rebel forces use children as soldiers, laborers in military camps, and sex slaves. Child soldiers are given drugs to overcome their fear and reluctance to participate in atrocities.

10. Small Arms Trade is Intimately Related to Diamond Smuggling Illicit diamonds inflame the clandestine trade of small arms. There are 500 billion small arms in the world today which are used to kill 500,000 people annually, the vast majority of whom are non-combatants.

herbi
09-01-2004, 02:37 PM
:thumbsup: I don't think you're making a "big deal of it", I think you're right on! I've never particularly seen what all the fuss is about diamonds anyway, even before I learned about all the awful human-rights violations and environmental damage that went along with them. There are a lot of more friendly (not to mention cheaper!!!) sparkly pretty things, if a sparkly pretty thing is all you want. I would say, pick out or design a ring that both of you like and that really represents you from an ethical as well as aesthetic point of view. Then you can enjoy your totally unique and meaningful symbol as opposed to always feeling sort of guilty in the back of your mind about going with the trend and accepting what goes along with that. The only situation in which I think a diamond is acceptable is if it's a family heirloom being passed on with a lot of sentimental value and a couple generations' distance from the diamond market. In that case, you aren't purchasing anything or fueling the trade. (I still wouldn't be that enthused, myself... just not a diamond kinda gal. But I've had 2 friends now in that situation, and their antique rings are cool because of all the family history behind them.) And just think how many OTHER cool things (a fabulous vacation maybe?) you could buy with "two months' salary" that might be a lot more fun than a chunk of rock.

There's an article about the difficulty of certifying a "conflict free" diamond in Conscious Choice magazine, here. (http://www.consciouschoice.com/cc1705/diamonds1705.html)

mouse
09-01-2004, 03:04 PM
I've never liked diamonds either. There are so many stones that are much more beautiful (and much less expensive). For example, amethyst and lavender jade, which I like even better. (I like lavender/purple, in case that hasn't come across yet.) If you want a stone, I'd suggest deciding on a color, and then seeing what kind of stones come in that color. I also really like rings that contain no stone, but have a design which is more sculptural. This is a wonderful opportunity to pick something that is unique to you and that is meaningful to your relationship.

kimmysoo
09-01-2004, 03:10 PM
Great link, herbi... thanks! Canadian diamonds don't sound much better, think I'll stay away from those, too. I bookmarked the Conscious Choice mag main page for future reading. :)

My boyfriend's all for diamond alternatives mostly cause it's cheaper :rolleyes: plus, he's great about indulging my "do gooder" ways. He's even become quite the do gooder himself... not quite vegan yet (almost fully veg though) but getting there. That's a story for another thread - omni significant others.

Back to rings.... I can't see spending so much $$$ on a piece of jewelry. I mean, to me it equates to how many more animals I could rescue or causes I could support... I just don't get it. My female friends and coworkers, of course, can't understand my point of view... probably doesn't help that none are veg*n or involved in anything. That's why I need you guys for help with problems such as this! :)

kimmysoo
09-01-2004, 03:26 PM
Ohhhh... I love lavendar and purple too, mouse! I never thought about going with an alternate stone. I was thinking cubic zirconia because, well.. they look like diamonds. Damn my pre-programmed and overly-influenced mind! :brood:

Artichoke47
09-01-2004, 06:07 PM
I like the bands, too, like a white gold or yellow gold 3-5 mm. Those look nice and show your commitment, not flashiness.

I have to admit that I like diamonds, the way they look, if it's a nice cut, clarity, and size. HOWEVER, ever since finding out about the unfair-trade-ness of diamonds, I haven't bought any and don't plan on it.

dviolet
09-01-2004, 06:15 PM
I think rubies, emeralds and sapphires are beautiful alternatives. I do have a diamond right, though. I'm glad you posted this info because I never knew. I honestly would never buy diamonds or want another even if I didn't just read this. I only wear mine because of how much it meant for it to be given to me by my wonderful husband. I do like the non-traditional approach too, though.

dviolet
09-01-2004, 06:17 PM
Oh yeah, and there are some really cool vintage engagement rings that you can find on Ebay and the diamonds back then were so much smaller. Amazing how materialistic women have become about jewelry!

thecatspajamas
09-01-2004, 06:53 PM
I've seen some people do tattoos on their ring fingers to symbolize their marriage. It's kind of a different idea, but I really like the symbolism and permanence that a tattooed wedding ring would represent.

Rosemary
09-01-2004, 08:03 PM
I've never cared for diamonds, and now I like them even less.

My sister recently got engaged; her fiance made the engagement ring himself! It's silver with two onyxes.

FafaFrappy
09-01-2004, 08:37 PM
Wow.. I was not aware of any of that... :( Thanks for the information!

Not that I hoped for an uber expensive ring some day.. never did.

Stitches
09-02-2004, 04:06 AM
I've never liked diamonds much...or gold for that matter. All of the gold jewelry pieces I own are heirlooms. If I was getting engaged I'd want a silver ring with something jewel-toned in it (I'm an amethyst fiend...but I love garnets too).

kimmysoo
09-02-2004, 07:18 AM
I like the idea of a plain white gold band - thanks, Arti! A vintage ring would also be very cool... will definitely look into that. I wish there was a hand-me-down ring in one of our families though.

Rosemary - your sister sounds like a very lucky girl! That ring sounds awesome and kudos to her new hubby for making it himself. When my brother got married 10 years ago he designed a beautiful ring for his wife. It's a matte-finish gold band - kinda wide - with a princess cut sapphire, no diamonds. I don't think he did it for ethical reasons... he just likes to be different. My sister-in-law loves it to this day... people always comment on it.

More diamond info from Amnesty International (http://www.amnestyusa.org/amnestynow/diamonds.html)

Sunshine
09-02-2004, 08:25 AM
It's quite common for the wedding ring to be a plain band with no jewels - it's the engagement ring that seems to be the issue - and personally I never understood why any woman would want an engagement ring. The man doesn't wear one but the woman does - saying the woman is already taken but the man is still "free". Puh-lease. When my husband and I were talking marriage I made it clear I would never wear an engagement ring and that if he gave me one I would put it through his nose! I've read that the engagement ring stems back about 100 years when women didn't work and were "taken care of" by men financially - so a woman was given an engagement ring so that if a man backed out, she was compensated for her "wasted time" with him since she'd now have to start over to find someone new to take care of her economically. Well this is the 21st century where women work as well as the men and are pretty much financial equals and want to be equals in a marriage partnership so this idea of a man giving a woman an engagement ring seems pretty silly and pretty outdated to me. I know some of my gal pals didn't understand it (my guy friends were all very cool with this) but it seems to me that the "showing off of the ring" is almost a competitive thing - look how big the diamond is, it's his grandmother's - his family or him must really love me, etc. Either you know your guy loves you or not - a ring is hardly representative of that.

carnelian
09-03-2004, 01:03 PM
I had a diamond years ago when I was married, but when I divorced, I sold it. If I get married again, I do not want another one. I'm in agreement with mouse about other stones or a unique band without a stone. I wouldn't mind a ruby...:heart:

Emiloid
09-03-2004, 01:30 PM
Thanks for the info, kimmysoo. I knew some of this stuff, but it's great to have so many additional, specific reasons to avoid diamonds. The only thing I like about them is that they are such a hard material, but that's from a geology/geeky POV. :blank:

If I ever get married, I like the idea of no engagement ring and a simple (yet unique) wedding band made by a friend or local artist. I never wear rings (or much other jewelry) so I hope I could get used to it! Maybe I'd take to wearing an ordinary ring on my ring finger to "practice" before the wedding?!? Otherwise I'd probably end up taking the wedding ring off all the time just because it feels weird. :confused: Wouldn't want my partner to get the wrong idea! ;)

Hey, aren't there funny rules/customs about wedding/engagement rings... like you wear the engagement ring on your right hand until the wedding or something? I dunno, I just heard that somewhere.

Tracy G
09-04-2004, 10:33 AM
The only thing I like about them is that they are such a hard material, but that's from a geology/geeky POV.

That's true, but if we want to be supergeeky, it's worth a mention that diamond is only a metastable phase of carbon. ;) At normal atmospheric pressures, it very slowly transforms to graphite. Not something one might notice over a lifetime, but heh, diamonds actually aren't forever.

When my husband and I wed in 1995, I asked him to never give me a diamond. To which he happily agreed. :happy:

attackferret
09-08-2004, 05:30 PM
5. Open-Pit Diamond Mines Pose Environmental Threats Diamond mines are open pits where salts, heavy minerals, organisms, oil, and chemicals from mining equipment freely leach into ground-water, endangering people in nearby mining camps and villages, as well as downstream plants and animals.

I would just like to note, for the record, that mining for a garnet or a ruby would also do this. I was just in Montana, and the largest superfund site in the US is a copper mine in Butte, MT. It's terrible, it's slowly filling up with dark red water with a pH of 1 (2 on good days). A flock of geese landed on it a few years ago, and none of them left.

There are also gold mines peppering the area I was in (Cardwell, a bit over an hour west of Bozeman), and while they tended not to be open pit mines, they still destroyed the surrounding streams. Silver mines do the same thing.

However, DeBeers really is terrible, and because of the (almost) monopoly on the diamond business diamonds are the least socially/environmentally/economically conscious choice out there.

I have no idea what I'm going to do about a wedding ring when/if the time comes. Just thought I'd give you some food for thought.

kimmysoo
09-08-2004, 05:49 PM
I would just like to note, for the record, that mining for a garnet or a ruby would also do this. I was just in Montana, and the largest superfund site in the US is a copper mine in Butte, MT. It's terrible, it's slowly filling up with dark red water with a pH of 1 (2 on good days). A flock of geese landed on it a few years ago, and none of them left.

Thanks for the info, attackferret (and Happy Birthday! :daisy: ). I was kinda wondering if mining for other stones would also be bad for the environment... makes sense. I think I've settled on a white gold band with or without cubic zirconia.

Something else that occurred to me... I'd personally never wear vintage fur, leather or silk so why would I want a vintage diamond? :confused: :huh:

Justitia
09-08-2004, 06:31 PM
You could also consider an Apollo (http://www.apollodiamond.com/gemstones.html) diamond, when they hit the market...

kimmysoo
09-08-2004, 06:50 PM
Thanks, Justitia. I've never heard of Apollo. :)

Just read this article about Apollo Diamonds at wired.com:


The diamond industry fought back. Early last year, De Beers began shipping improved, even more sensitive DiamondSure machines to labs around the world. Meanwhile, industry groups led by the Jewelers Vigilance Committee have pressured the Federal Trade Commission to force Gemesis to label its stones as synthetic. The tussle goes to the heart of the marketing problem for Gemesis or any maker of synthetic gems: How will consumers feel about them? The mystique of natural diamonds is anything but rational. Part of the allure is their high cost and supposed rarity. Yet diamonds are plentiful - De Beers maintains vast stockpiles and tightly controls supply. Clever marketing may bring buyers around to manufactured diamonds. After all, there's no chance that they are so-called blood diamonds - stones sold by African rebels to fund wars and revolutions. And they aren't under the thumb of an international cartel accused of buying off foreign governments, despoiling the environment, flouting antimonopoly laws, and exploiting mine workers.

The article goes on to say that women would rather have a larger, cheaper synthetic diamond than a smaller, more expensive genuine diamond. This is the idiot diamond rep's response:


Wrong, says Jef Van Royen, a senior scientist at the Diamond High Council, the official representative of the diamond industry in Belgium. "If people really love each other, then they give each other the real stone," he says, during an interview at council headquarters on the Hoveniersstraat in Antwerp. "It is not a symbol of eternal love if it is something that was created last week." So goes the De Beers-backed line.

They really give us a lot of credit, eh? :rolleyes:

vggiegirl
09-10-2004, 08:13 AM
Herbi thanks for listing that article! I live in chicago and my bf and I WILL eventually get married. I love the thought of having a real and conflict free diamond :D

FalafelsRule
09-10-2004, 07:26 PM
When my husband and I wed in 1995, I asked him to never give me a diamond. To which he happily agreed. :happy:

That is awesome.

Lacykitten
09-25-2004, 07:48 PM
I've never liked diamonds myself either.

I had the idea, back a few years when kladdaugh (sp?) rings were popular - when Angel gave Buffy one on BTVS - of my perfect wedding ring..

Picture a kladdaugh ring.. the heart, hands, and crown..
It'd have the gemstone of our marriage month in the center - the heart.
One hand would be my birth stone, one would be his.
And the crown would be our engagement month.

It'd be a very special ring, truly symbolizing, to me, ourselves in it... in white gold or some silver-colored substance. :)

Though just a ring like that would be cool.. the three stones (or even two, forget engagement month) would be small to the side of the main one.. Though that'd mean I would have to plan my wedding date for a month whose stone I like ;) hehe.


While the post on engagement rings makes me quite dislike the idea of them, I DO like the idea of "promise rings" - nothing flashy or fancy, but something nice and simple, that you both wear.. I don't agree with only one person wearing a ring, engagement or wedding.. but I love the idea of a matching set of promise rings..

... I love the guy who said that if you really love someone you'll only give them the real thing. What about what WE want? What if we WANT a fake stone? I'd rather spend the money on a wicked awesome honeymoon than something to wear.

FalafelsRule
09-25-2004, 07:57 PM
While the post on engagement rings makes me quite dislike the idea of them, I DO like the idea of "promise rings" - nothing flashy or fancy, but something nice and simple, that you both wear.. I don't agree with only one person wearing a ring, engagement or wedding.. but I love the idea of a matching set of promise rings..

... I love the guy who said that if you really love someone you'll only give them the real thing. What about what WE want? What if we WANT a fake stone? I'd rather spend the money on a wicked awesome honeymoon than something to wear.

I am with you in your thoughts about rings. I hope that if I become fortunate enough to have a vegan sweetheart one day, she will feel the same way.

spidermonkey
09-25-2004, 09:45 PM
More diamond info from Amnesty International (http://www.amnestyusa.org/amnestynow/diamonds.html)
:o I never liked diamonds, and now I dislike them even more.

Artichoke47
09-25-2004, 09:47 PM
I have a problem with white gold, too. I mean, why, if I'm told a ring is solid white gold, does it turn yellow after a few months? I've been told they have to be redipped in white gold, but shouldn't people make higher quality rings?

Geez. :(

Lacykitten
09-25-2004, 10:59 PM
Artichoke - I'm not sure about that?

I've had silver colored rings.. not sure if they are "white gold" or sterling silver or platinum or whatever it is - I only wear silver-color jewelry and while some of it is the cheap stuff (not CHEAP but like, not expensive jewelry store stuff.. more the funky stuff you can buy anywhere, or souvenier stuff etc) I had an opal (with two diamonds, but I think they were crappy cos the entire ring was $300, I didn't like the diamonds anyway but the ring was pretty) ring that was silver colored, and my dad recalls that it was white gold... And I had it for I think 3-4 years and wore it every day until I lost it, and it never changed color or anything. None of my rings ever have changed color.

Maybe it wasn't pure white gold, or maybe it wasn't dipped.. or something? I'm not sure. I've really never cared what my rings were made out of as long as they are and remain silver colored lol

Artichoke47
09-26-2004, 08:39 AM
They are definitely white gold. There are three of them. I bought them myself, and they are engraved, one is certified, and I bought them from reputable places.

Well, I used this silver polishing cloth that I have on them today and removed the yellow stuff. It must just be tarnish that comes off or something. I use hand wipes a lot and maybe that builds up on the gold.

Anyhow, they look back to new today! :)

Lacykitten
09-26-2004, 09:24 AM
Artichoke - I'm glad that you solved the problem! :D

I was suggesting that maybe *my* rings weren't pure gold.

But I had never heard of rings needing to be re-dipped or anything so I'm glad that's not the case. That would make them pretty darn expensive in the long run!

bird
02-17-2005, 06:39 PM
White gold is an alloy of yellow gold and white metals such as silver and palladium. White gold may also have nickel, but some jewelry manufacturers have stopped using nickel because it gives some people allergic reactions. 18kt white gold, for example, is made by mixing 75% yellow gold with 25% silver and palladium. (White gold jewelry sold in America can be 18kt, 14kt, or 10kt. The percentage of yellow gold is the same but the percentage of the white metals is different.)

Virtually all white gold rings sold come with a rhodium electroplate finish. Rhodium is a metal very similar to platinum and shares many of the properties of platinum, including its white color. The rhodium plating is used to make the white gold look more white. The natural color of white gold is actually a light gray color. The rhodium is very white and very hard, but it does wear away eventually. When it does the natural color shows through, which is that dingy yellowish/grayish that you're seeing. This will happen naturally with any white gold piece that you wear, and it doesn't mean that the jeweler or manufacturer that you got it from was a low-rent one. Not taking off your jewelry when you shower or do housework will accelerate the process of the finish wearing off.

To keep a white gold ring looking its best it should be re-plated approximately every 12 to 18 months, and perhaps more frequently depending on how often you wear the piece. Obviously, jewelry that gets banged up more (a ring or bracelet, for example, as opposed to a necklace or earrings) needs to replated more often. Replating is inexpensive and can be done by just about any jeweler, I think. I have never had to do it because I only wear 18k yellow gold jewelry. Hope that helps! Don't despair, there is an easy solution to your problem. :)

bird
02-17-2005, 06:49 PM
In case I wasn't clear, I should clarify that when you take it to the jeweler, of course you are getting the rhodium re-applied. Just cleaning your jewelry with solution or polishing it with a cloth will only burnish the [white] gold. It can't bring back the rhodium that has worn off. If it has been a long time since you got a piece of jewelry (and I'm speaking in general, not about your piece specifically, Artichoke) then when you polish it you might think that it looks as good as new, but if you compare it to jewelry at a store you can see that that's not true. I think the plating fills in some of the superficial lines and grooves that inevitably get worn into pieces that get lots of wear, like rings, thereby renewing that "polished" and smooth look that only a recently purchased piece has - not to mention making it brighter and shinier. But of course, when it comes down to it, as long as it looks good enough for the owner, that's all that matters.

grog
02-17-2005, 08:30 PM
So why not buy a tin ring dipped in rhodium?

grog
02-17-2005, 08:32 PM
These guys have some interesting stuff

http://www.greenkarat.com

Artichoke47
02-17-2005, 09:55 PM
:happy:
http://www.plantbasedpeople.com/showthread.php?t=4655&highlight=www.greenkarat.com

bird
02-17-2005, 10:06 PM
Grog,

Thank you so much for posting that link! You have no idea how happy you've made me. My boyfriend and I originally wanted some beautiful hammered gold rings that we saw in the Sundance Catalog to serve as our wedding bands (I don't want an engagement ring, stone or no stone). However, they were made of 14k gold and didn't come smaller than a size 5. I wanted 18k gold and also wear a very small ring size, 4.5. So we thought we'd have to settle for plain round bands from Tiffany's or something (not that many jewelers sell my size). The greenKarat website has exactly the hand-hammered bands that we originally fell in love with, in 18k gold, and in my size! It also has the same concept of supporting the small, independent artisan that Sundance does. The recycled gold is the cherry on top. We'll be getting the Sigurd's Contrast bands as soon as we're back in the States. I hope they'll still be carrying them then. Thanks again for sharing! You've made my week!

WadesMommy
02-17-2005, 10:18 PM
I love my engagement ring. LOVE it. And my diamond eternity wedding band. However, I act like a spaz about it, I'm always so afraid that the diamond will fall out. It's insured, but still. If I were to ever lose them (one or the other) I would definitely get a fake one, like the ones they advertise on HSN, the diamonique, no one but a jeweler can tell it's not real.

However, as for diamonds not keeping their retail value, from my own personal experience, that's a crock. My mom's diamond has practically doubled in value from the time she and my dad got engaged. When I got engaged to my ex-fiance, he gave me a ring that he paid $500 for (at a pawn shop, what a winner, it's one thing if you don't mind it, but that was just wrong according to me at age 18). When I dumped his sorry butt and met my husband, I traded it in at a jewelry store for $1500.

bird
02-17-2005, 10:22 PM
As for the question of why you shouldn't just get a tin ring and get it plated... I think you may have been joking, but in case you weren't I'd have to say that I honestly don't know. Maybe they've found that tin gives people allergies too, like nickel? I do know that they make stainless steel jewelry for people with allergies to gold. Theoretically you could get steel or tin or whatever metal of your choice plated, but maybe some metals make better bases than others? (i.e., hold the finish better?) Or maybe the gold standard is just a tool to artificially inflate the price of jewelry? Then again, there is jewelry out there made of plastic, resin, wood, feathers, leather, silk, minerals, fabric, bone, shells, and even string, so I don't think designers have anything against trying different materials. And is mining one metal better than mining another? I have no idea about relative ecological damages of different metal industries. Tin would be cheaper than gold, but obviously all jewelry is a luxury when you think about it. It's not something anyone really *needs* to have.

bird
02-17-2005, 10:38 PM
Oh, another idea... maybe it's not as hard? Tin, like aluminum, strikes me as kind of soft and malleable. Maybe they don't use it because it wouldn't hold up in a piece of jewelry; it would get too banged up? I'm sure jewelers must have evaluated all the common and widely available metals as candidates by now, and if something isn't used, there's probably a reason why.

grog
02-17-2005, 11:04 PM
We'll be getting the Sigurd's Contrast bands as soon as we're back in the States. I hope they'll still be carrying them then. Thanks again for sharing! You've made my week!

Aw, you're welcome. The hammered bands are one of my favorites too.

lex_talionis
02-18-2005, 07:04 AM
Kimmysoo - Yes.
Diamonds bad!
Diamonds common as carbon!
Diamonds dripping blood!

Buy a Moissanite. http://www.moissanite.com/history.cfm (<= cheesy, it's a symbol of love and life' type marketing thing, but a good quick starting point for info)
Moissanite is a created stone with a higher refractive index than a diamond (more fire). It has no inclusions (since it's created). And it's hardness is 9.25, so it's super durable. Best of all, by carat wt, it is about 1/10th the cost of a diamond. So you can get one the size of a pea (if you wanna be tacky) and still have money left.

They are really really cool.

N.B. - I don't work for them and I'm not like the potato milk guy. "Thanks for your healthyful potato milk, Dr. Johnson." I'm just happy that they made these things.


P.S. - Want a beautiful, RARE gem? buy a natural emerald. I can't remember the specifics, but they only form when certain geological conditions occurr that are nearly impossible.

P.P.S. - gems are a sucky form of wealth. My buddy owns a pawn shop in WV, and he rarely even buys gems, because they're not very liquid. Gold is a much, much, much better 'thing' to own if you're concerned about putting money into something with intrinsic value.

lex_talionis
02-18-2005, 08:15 AM
tasteless diamond ring joke (http://users.ecoisp.com/willncindy/img/diamond2.jpg)

kikkert
02-18-2005, 09:28 AM
Want a beautiful, RARE gem? buy a natural emerald.

That's what my pseudo engagement ring had, as well as diamonds. I'm not married any longer, and didn't/don't wear it on my left hand, but it was my ex's birthstone and green is my favorite color so he bought it for me. I already had several pieces with my birthstone (blue sapphire). When we decided to exchange rings we both agreed to have bands custom made in recycled yellow gold by an amazing jeweler in PA. If I ever partner up again, I doubt I'll bother with a ring at all.

It's not fun to think about, but I had a lot of gemstone jewlery at one point in my life, including diamond earrings and a diamond engagement ring when I was young and impressionable. I still have some pieces that I truly enjoy wearing, but most has been sold or given away. Reading some of these links has reminded me why.

lex_talionis
02-18-2005, 10:03 AM
The Dept I work for has a bureau that is in charge of taking abandoned safety deposit boxes, opening them, liquidating the contents and holding the money in trust until the owner or owner's estate can be found.

THey find some insane gems in some of those boxes...

Emiloid
02-18-2005, 11:09 AM
There's always Lifegem... http://www.lifegem.com/
Sorry, I know that's just twisted (for wedding/engagement rings anyway). Still, I'm compelled to share.

grog
02-18-2005, 12:07 PM
There's always Lifegem... http://www.lifegem.com/
Sorry, I know that's just twisted (for wedding/engagement rings anyway). Still, I'm compelled to share.

OMG.

Sunshine
02-18-2005, 08:42 PM
The Dept I work for has a bureau that is in charge of taking abandoned safety deposit boxes, opening them, liquidating the contents and holding the money in trust until the owner or owner's estate can be found.

THey find some insane gems in some of those boxes...

That would be a cool job - I bet they find a lot of interesting things in those boxes!

Lacykitten
02-19-2005, 06:44 AM
I like the lifegem idea. Not for a wedding/engagement/commitment ring, but as a way to keep passed-on loved ones near to you.

If it wasn't so expensive, I'd get my kitty done when he dies. As it is, if I could I'd get my mom done... being able to always have her close would be awesome.

Then again I've always been a little odd.

lex_talionis
02-21-2005, 07:28 AM
That would be a cool job - I bet they find a lot of interesting things in those boxes!

Yeah. I often think about it. I'm not suggesting anything to anyone, but the 'security' there is nonexistant.

There's a door. With a lock! And to get to the vault room, you have to go past a receptionist.

That's it. And while most of the stuff they find is documents, or wheat penny collections, they also regularly find numismatic gold, gold bullion, and cash. LOTS of cash.

JasperKat
02-24-2005, 08:57 AM
Somebody already mentioned Apollo Diamond, here's their competitor in the synthetic diamond field: http://www.gemesis.com/home.htm
I love the idea of a synthetic diamond, or a vintage wedding set. There are thousands of web sites that sell vintage and antique wedding sets, and most are very inexpensive compared to a set from the jewelry store.

I also like the tattooed wedding rings.

-JK

lex_talionis
02-25-2005, 07:10 AM
I've got one WAY better than the life diamond.

Grow wedding bands from your mates bone cells.

Cultured bone offers novel wedding rings
19:00 23 February 2005
Exclusive from New Scientist Print Edition
Jenny Hogan
Some will think it a romantic gesture, others will find it grisly. But one willing couple in the UK is about to get the chance, thanks to a government-funded project intended to promote awareness of the issues surrounding tissue engineering.

"It's for people who want to give a bit of their body to each other," says Nikki Stott, a jewellery designer at the Royal College of Art in London. She and her colleague Tobie Kerridge are collaborating with Ian Thomspon, a bioengineer at King's College London.

The tricky part is that the lucky couple will have to provide bone cell samples, for which the team will get ethical approval only if both people already need surgery. The most likely scenario is that both will need wisdom teeth pulling, Thompson says.

Ring-shaped scaffold
During that procedure, an extra sliver of bone can be sliced from the jaw to yield bone cells. These cells will be grown on a ring-shaped scaffold structure, which will slowly dissolve as the cells colonise it.

The rough bone circles will then be given to the designers, who will consult with the couple and shape the bone into customised rings. Each partner will give the other the ring grown from their cells.

One possibility is that the rings could be used as wedding bands. "There is nothing in law that states what a wedding ring can or cannot be made of," says a spokesperson for the Office of National Statistics, the body that enforces the UK's marriage guidelines.

Interested couples can apply through www.biojewelry.co.uk. The team says this is a one-off, and they have no plans to start a commercial venture.

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7050

herbi
02-25-2005, 08:38 AM
The rough bone circles will then be given to the designers, who will consult with the couple and shape the bone into customised rings. Each partner will give the other the ring grown from their cells.

:o! Now that is just way cool! I wanna do it!

jenzie
02-25-2005, 03:17 PM
That is awesome! Neat!

Emiloid
02-25-2005, 07:12 PM
Ewwww.... I don't know why LifeGem seems OK to me but that bone thing is just icky. Heh. OK, maybe after I get over the shock of the whole idea it will seem neat-o.

Lacykitten
02-25-2005, 08:05 PM
Coooooool.

WadesMommy
02-25-2005, 10:07 PM
I don't know about the bone one, but the LifeGem website is a fake. There was a big project about it several months ago in Washington DC when I lived near there. The copany just takes the ashes, throws them out and sends a diamond to the person. It's too bad, because I was going to get one of Wade if he dies.

Emiloid
02-25-2005, 10:38 PM
I don't know about the bone one, but the LifeGem website is a fake. There was a big project about it several months ago in Washington DC when I lived near there. The copany just takes the ashes, throws them out and sends a diamond to the person.
Wow, that is serously screwed up. :blank:

jenzie
02-26-2005, 12:15 AM
I don't know about the bone one, but the LifeGem website is a fake. There was a big project about it several months ago in Washington DC when I lived near there. The copany just takes the ashes, throws them out and sends a diamond to the person. It's too bad, because I was going to get one of Wade if he dies.

Really? Whoa. How are they allowed to continue with their business then? That sucks. :umm:

JasperKat
02-27-2005, 06:44 PM
I don't know about the bone one, but the LifeGem website is a fake. There was a big project about it several months ago in Washington DC when I lived near there. The copany just takes the ashes, throws them out and sends a diamond to the person. It's too bad, because I was going to get one of Wade if he dies.


How about this (http://www.gemhut.com/pdcrmtnjwlry.htm) instead?
-JK

Emiloid
02-27-2005, 08:05 PM
Funny how we've moved from enagements and weddings to funerals. :blank:

Miso Vegan
05-15-2006, 01:54 PM
OK, back on topic people!!!!

I've been ethically opposed to diamonds for a long time, so Nanashi and I have been looking at Green Karat's website.

I like a few of their styles, I love the recycled metals aspect, and the created stones if we go that route (not so important).

We haven't decided about whether we'll go with engagement rings -if so, we'd both wear one. The main advantage I see is that guys would be less likely to hit on me. Since that doesn't happen very often, it's not a convincing argument.

I think we'd also only get engagement rings if we could find his'n'hers sets of matching engagement and wedding rings. It's not common for a man to wear an engagement ring, so that may be hard to find.

It does seem silly to find a ring just to wear for a year. After that, it's just part of the wedding set, but no longer significant.

Green Karat does custom work, and I know someone locally who also does - with recycled metals/manmade stones, and of course I'm sure there are actually many local jewelry designers who can do these things.... This is Seattle, after all....

MissLovely
05-15-2006, 02:15 PM
My engagement ring is an estate piece. 1930's art deco. I would nevah, evah buy new diamonds, or new jewelry for that matter.

Flower
04-06-2007, 09:20 PM
We watched Blood Diamond tonight, so I felt compelled to bump this thread in case any newer people don't know about this issue.

LuC
04-07-2007, 07:49 AM
I have been sensitive to the purchase and ownership of diamonds for a very long time for all the reasons listed in this thread. Mr. P. and I got ourselves engagement tattoo's instead of getting me a ring. My wedding ring has a small stone but not a diamond. It's just a crystal.

I have tried sharing all that I know about the great lies of the diamond industry with friends who were getting engaged but the truth was never welcomed. It was quite the opposite actually, I was told that what I was saying must be the lie. :mad: :umm: :confused: People don't want to know the truth. They are too self absorbed because having a diamond is associated with some sort of status they obviously feel they need. I just don't get it.

Joda
04-07-2007, 08:48 AM
You're right LuC,... people don't want to know the truth and become quite defensive upon hearing things that may cause them to think harshely about the materials they own. I don't understand the human race and the need to put things like diamonds, chocolate, leather,... etc, above human and non human quality of life.

I :heart: the tattoo idea,... (now, I simply need to find me a mate) :rolleyes:

Miso Vegan
04-07-2007, 11:06 AM
OK, back on topic people!!!!

I've been ethically opposed to diamonds for a long time, so Nanashi and I have been looking at Green Karat's website.

I like a few of their styles, I love the recycled metals aspect, and the created stones if we go that route (not so important).

We haven't decided about whether we'll go with engagement rings -if so, we'd both wear one. The main advantage I see is that guys would be less likely to hit on me. Since that doesn't happen very often, it's not a convincing argument.

I think we'd also only get engagement rings if we could find his'n'hers sets of matching engagement and wedding rings. It's not common for a man to wear an engagement ring, so that may be hard to find.

It does seem silly to find a ring just to wear for a year. After that, it's just part of the wedding set, but no longer significant.

Green Karat does custom work, and I know someone locally who also does - with recycled metals/manmade stones, and of course I'm sure there are actually many local jewelry designers who can do these things.... This is Seattle, after all....

Update:
My mom gave us an heirloom piece of hers with a bunch of diamonds in it, so we found a local jeweler (I remembered my former neighbor made jewelry, so I looked him up) and he took some of the stones out and make us rings from them.

Joda, I hadn't given much thought to diamonds, other than not be all that enamored with them, and having a sense that the mining was probably unethical. Then I had a manager who had stopped wearing her wedding ring (although still married) because of the problems with diamonds, and it really opened my eyes, and I respected her for that decision (after all, most people, if they found out the truth but already had a diamond ring, would just say, "oh well, the damage is done and I need a wedding band on my finger"). Her rejection of convention really illustrated the seriousness of the issue to me.

doomdiva
04-08-2007, 10:11 AM
I never got the whole fancy wedding stuff in the first place. Our wedding rings are tattoos (which are a whole lot more "forever" than a diamond LOL), we married downtown at city hall, my dress cost $40 at Burlington Coat Factory and our reception went dutch.

So let's break it down like a Mastercard commercial: ;)

Wedding rings: $80 including tip
Invitations: $2.00 in phone calls
Flowers: None (I'm not that kinda girl LOL)
Her dress: $40
Wedding: $50 including parking
Reception: $40 including tip

Approaching Ninth Anniversary: Priceless

The only thing I didn't like was the fact my mom refused to attend because she's very much Catholic and Ron's not and it wasn't in a Catholic church. When I called her, she said she couldn't because she had to work overtime! :mad:

Miso Vegan
04-08-2007, 10:59 AM
The only thing I didn't like was the fact my mom refused to attend because she's very much Catholic and Ron's not and it wasn't in a Catholic church. When I called her, she said she couldn't because she had to work overtime! :mad:
:umm: sorry your mom had to be a putz.

downwithapathy
04-08-2007, 12:01 PM
Seriously... click here (http://www.amazon.com/Sterling-Silver-Wedding-Band-Thumb/dp/B000FFS8JK/ref=sr_1_35/002-4548682-8144063?ie=UTF8&s=jewelry&qid=1176051433&sr=8-35).

I'm not planning anything... so no assumptions! :p ...but when discussing marriage for health/dental insurance... oh, and wuv... I had pretty much decided this was the way I'd go.

Now Mom's offered me my great-grandparents' rings (assuming she can find her father's), so how much does a resize cost? :p

Um, offered my great-grandparents' rings in general... not for anything in particular. The end.

bird
04-08-2007, 12:33 PM
sonja, a resize will probably run you about $10-$15.

doomdiva
04-08-2007, 08:34 PM
:umm: sorry your mom had to be a putz.

Ah well, that's her deal. My one brother showed up (the one who helped us start the label) and my friend (the one who bought us the property). I guess that goes to show you who your real family is :) My dad was already on non-speaking terms with me at that time, and my two younger brothers literally spaced on the date (they were/are big potheads LOL).

Nearly ALL of Ron's family showed up, plus two of his friends. Civil court weddings are done in a judge's chambers, so obviously space is an issue, so MORE of his family and friends would have come if they had room enough! We saw them all at the restaurant later ;)

doomdiva
04-08-2007, 08:40 PM
Now Mom's offered me my great-grandparents' rings (assuming she can find her father's)


Now THAT'S meaningful! I love heirloom rings and jewelry in general for that matter. Not only do they hold sentimental value and a wonderful emotional bond, but my beliefs are such to say they hold a very positive energy to help a marriage along :) If we had something like that, even with my allergies, I would have found a way. ;)

And hey, on a sterile afterthought, it's an excellent example of reusing and recycling! LOL

LuC
04-09-2007, 08:13 AM
I never got the whole fancy wedding stuff in the first place. Our wedding rings are tattoos (which are a whole lot more "forever" than a diamond LOL)

We got wedding tattoos too! :p We felt they were much more meaningful and represented more of who we are as individuals and as life partners.

doomdiva
04-09-2007, 08:47 AM
hehe yep. I always get the awkward stare at it at first, but even some of the snideliest of girls at the office literally melted when I explained what it was. ;)

Flower
04-09-2007, 10:22 AM
I love the idea of wedding ring tattoos!! :heart:

bluedawg
04-09-2007, 12:33 PM
my sister told me that she'd been told (by some tattoo places and by some friends) that people won't tattoo rings around fingers anymore. i can't remember why anymore... something about... oh crap, i suck.

anyway, my question is, has she been misinformed?

bluemango
04-09-2007, 12:52 PM
This is strange, I *just* had this conversation with somem friends over the weekend and then saw this thread today. I feel pretty strongly about not ever having an engagement ring. I like the idea of commitment/wedding bands that both parties wear, though. Engagement rings seem quite sexist, degrading, and destructive on a lot of levels for me.

Also - if the ring is supposed to symbolize a commitment to each other for the future, why would you spend that money on an overpriced bauble? I would want to use it to invest in our future instead - retirement fund, down payment on a house, donation to shared cause, etc. I've reached the point where I wouldn't want to marry someone who would offer me an engagement ring - because clearly they wouldn't know me well enough! :p

downwithapathy
04-09-2007, 01:11 PM
Now THAT'S meaningful! I love heirloom rings and jewelry in general for that matter. Not only do they hold sentimental value and a wonderful emotional bond, but my beliefs are such to say they hold a very positive energy to help a marriage along :) If we had something like that, even with my allergies, I would have found a way. ;)

And hey, on a sterile afterthought, it's an excellent example of reusing and recycling! LOL
Awww. I'm not a superstitious person, but there's no couple of ancestors whose rings I'd rather have. Their marriage was reportedly a very successful one. My great-grandmother is actually still alive (with advanced Alzheimer's disease). In a way, wearing her ring would be bittersweet, but it's mostly happy (especially about the recycling part). :) Her ring is currently attached to her engagement ring and another ring her husband gave her (she had that done just about a decade ago). My mom plans to separate the rings, so I won't have to wear the diamonds (or feel awkward about the symbolism of the engagement ring, or have big sparkly things get in the way of my activities).

Here's where I get unromantic. If I get married anytime soon, it will be a quick, barely planned just us kind of wedding with my current partner who can't stand wearing jewelry. I don't want to wear a ring if he doesn't, so we'll probably only wear our rings around family. :p ...which may be for the best. No hurt feelings if someone loses the ring. :)

Oh, and if he doesn't want my great-grandfather's ring, I'm makin' him get one of the cheap sterling silver dealies, at least. Rings aren't just for girls. :mad: :p

P.S. We'll honeymoon at the Chicago Diner. We've discussed this.

grog
04-09-2007, 01:25 PM
Rumor has it Sonja's gettin' married :shocking:

I like Silver.

But thumb rings are only for Gypsies and Pirates, in my book.

downwithapathy
04-09-2007, 01:36 PM
Ahhjhjjhhhh, my family's been spreading rumors! It doesn't have to go on the thumb, grogly.

Jessica
04-09-2007, 08:13 PM
I don't care to ever get married. I do, however, like the idea of a what I like to call "back off bitchez, i'm taken" ring.

www.brilliantearth.com seems like a nice place.

Joda
04-16-2007, 09:28 AM
I don't care to ever get married. I do, however, like the idea of a what I like to call "back off bitchez, i'm taken" ring.

:laugh:

Chijou_no_seiza
04-16-2007, 01:07 PM
hehe Jessica.


I don't even like diamonds, never had. I want a Green Karat ring recycled from some silvery type metal (with carbon neuralization for the production). Also probably wanted to custom design because I find most rings to gaudy and like shape more interesting then then the gems themselves.

I actually really like your ring idea Sonja, very simple but I don't see an enviro benefit?

vegankitty
04-16-2007, 01:07 PM
The only diamond I ever had (or would want) was my mothers engagement ring , which was my father's mothers before.Unfortunately it was stolen.It was from the 1910s and it kills me that it was stolen.It wasn't very big , but its sentimental value was enormous.Also stolen was my maternal grandmothers engagement ring , which was a sapphire.I have my maternal grandparents wedding rings and wear them all the time.

I want a small white gold and cubic zirconia ring.I like small stones.But I don't want it as an engagement ring , just for me.

When I got married my husband and I had matching silver rings we bought on the street.I lost mine when we were seperated , but he was buried wearing his.(I would have liked it but his family hates me.)

grog
04-16-2007, 02:38 PM
I actually really like your ring idea Sonja, very simple but I don't see an enviro benefit?

It's more ethical, not necessarily environmental.

Chijou_no_seiza
04-16-2007, 03:03 PM
:searching around the amazon page: because there are no diamonds which make it inherently more ethical, or is the metal somehow ethically produced as well?

downwithapathy
04-16-2007, 03:04 PM
I actually really like your ring idea Sonja, very simple but I don't see an enviro benefit?
Wait. Which idea? :p

Chijou_no_seiza
04-16-2007, 03:05 PM
Seriously... click here (http://www.amazon.com/Sterling-Silver-Wedding-Band-Thumb/dp/B000FFS8JK/ref=sr_1_35/002-4548682-8144063?ie=UTF8&s=jewelry&qid=1176051433&sr=8-35).



This one

grog
04-16-2007, 03:07 PM
:searching around the amazon page: because there are no diamonds which make it inherently more ethical, or is the metal somehow ethically produced as well?

more ethical to get a silver ring, versus a blood diamond.

ETA: I should stop speaking for Sonja now as she's around :D

downwithapathy
04-16-2007, 03:11 PM
Oh. Well... I've read that gold mining is more destrictive than silver mining (silver is usually a byproduct of other mining, something of that nature). I went from there. Otherwise, I'm just young and poor, and I can donate the money I don't spend on a ring to a worthy cause. Otherwise, I'd probably go for a simple greenkarat ring. I do now have my great-grandmother's set and, at very least, that is what I will use for myself.

grog
04-16-2007, 03:12 PM
Also probably wanted to custom design because I find most rings to gaudy and like shape more interesting then then the gems themselves.

The problem with designing your own is then you can't be surprised with one :silly:

Chijou_no_seiza
04-16-2007, 03:25 PM
I've thought of that...

is it the engagment ring that is fancy or the wedding actual band? I could have it reversed, super plain engagment ring and then help out with the final product... It's just ...I don't want to stare at something ugly for the rest of my life :silly:

ETA: I just thought :idea: that it would be sweet if my potential husband designed my ring, because well lets face it the enviro rings are ugly... but it would be special if it was custom designed, then even if it was ugly it'd still be special :love:

grog
04-16-2007, 03:34 PM
there's something I've been meaning to ask you http://trainedmonkey.com/scratch/9.78ctw-diamond-ring.jpg

Sunshine
04-16-2007, 03:43 PM
YIPES! Now that is scary!

Sunshine
04-16-2007, 03:47 PM
This is strange, I *just* had this conversation with somem friends over the weekend and then saw this thread today. I feel pretty strongly about not ever having an engagement ring. I like the idea of commitment/wedding bands that both parties wear, though. Engagement rings seem quite sexist, degrading, and destructive on a lot of levels for me.

Also - if the ring is supposed to symbolize a commitment to each other for the future, why would you spend that money on an overpriced bauble? I would want to use it to invest in our future instead - retirement fund, down payment on a house, donation to shared cause, etc. I've reached the point where I wouldn't want to marry someone who would offer me an engagement ring - because clearly they wouldn't know me well enough! :p

My sentiments exactly. When I got engaged my husband felt he wanted to get me something since all the women he knew received a ring - so he got me a camera he knew I really wanted so we could record our lives together. No engagement ring for me.

Chijou_no_seiza
04-16-2007, 03:51 PM
there's something I've been meaning to ask you http://trainedmonkey.com/scratch/9.78ctw-diamond-ring.jpg

verrrry funny...

That is so ugly, thanks dear. :p

bird
04-16-2007, 04:22 PM
get a room already! :p

grog
04-16-2007, 05:47 PM
:blank:

Miso Vegan
04-16-2007, 06:06 PM
I've thought of that...

is it the engagment ring that is fancy or the wedding actual band? I could have it reversed, super plain engagment ring and then help out with the final product... It's just ...I don't want to stare at something ugly for the rest of my life :silly:

ETA: I just thought :idea: that it would be sweet if my potential husband designed my ring, because well lets face it the enviro rings are ugly... but it would be special if it was custom designed, then even if it was ugly it'd still be special :love:
Erm, I think some of the greenkarat rings are pretty....

But anyway, aesthetics aside, it is the engagement ring that is "fancy" of a set. (I'm not having a set of two, myself, Nanashi and I each have one ring that we helped design with the jeweler-friend.)

And, "surprise" engagements (and the ring that goes with it) are not as common as you might think. Many people get to the point of engagements through a series of conversations and [disclaimer: IN MY HUMBLE OPINION and NOT TRUE OF EVERY COUPLE :D] it takes a lot of power away from the woman to have the man be In Charge of deciding when and how to get engaged. When you think about it, if it's left entirely up to him, there is a passivity built into it on the woman's part. She cannot decide the timing, the setting, the ring.... Then, having completed His Role, it becomes mostly her burden to put together a wedding.
Meanwhile, because our society SO expects men to be In Charge of the engagement, women are kept in this sort of suspended state of hope/expectation mixed with confusion. (Will he ask me? When will he ask? Why hasn't he asked? What does it mean that he hasn't asked? What is he waiting for?) They may really want to get married to this man, and he probably knows it - so until he proposes, she's stuck. (Assuming she's too bound by tradition/fairy tales/expectations/confusion to propose to her mate first rather wait around wondering.) And this happens to the most progressive, strong and egalitarian women and their mates. A woman is supposed to wait until the man is ready - as if her readiness is not the important factor, as if his readiness makes the relationship valid.

So then he goes and buys this ring - and the size of the diamond is his status symbol - that you wear, even though you didn't get to choose it. And unless you (the woman) make it known that you do not want a diamond, you'll get a diamond, because he'll walk into a jeweler and the jeweler will sell him the biggest diamond he can afford (or even not afford). Meanwhile, the groom seldom has an engagement ring, himself. What does that say?

Well, I don't know if I'm explaining myself very well... it's all kinda weird and twisted, and until you're in it, it's hard to even see what's so weird and twisted about it all.

Chijou_no_seiza
04-16-2007, 06:24 PM
I somewhat agree with you Miso, but sometimes women don't know if there mate even wants to get married. Society wants us to percieve a woman as waiting to be married off, and similiarily that men are afraid of commitment. So naturally some women would like that their mate would 'pop the question' because it would be a signal their mate desired the same of their relationship that they want. Men like you said often are kinda clueless and buy whatever sounds good. But I think that's due to their perception of what will make their mate happy more than wanting to flaunt their money/power/domination/etc in a display of male power.

To me it sounds like miscommunication of mates in the situation you provide rather than a power struggle. Each one has stereotypical views of the other and they go with the flow. I think certain women might not want to be suprised and others want to talk it out, rationalize it, especially when there are other circumstances (eg. children, distance, past problems, complex personalities, etc) and would help determine if you are in the same place because one would doubt if the other was ready for marriage or not.

I don't think there is anything wrong with either way, and I think they are done based on perceptions of what will make the other happy, and to avoid hesistation and fear of rejection.

doomdiva
04-16-2007, 06:52 PM
Here's my $0.02...

There was a girl at my office who got engaged to a guy, and she completely ran the show. She worked there for "pocket money", which mens she really didn't work at all LOL He asked her, but no ring was present, because he was afraid he'd get something "tacky". She was on the DeBeers website picking her ring at work, and personally, I thought it was soooo completely superficial. She would run around the office showing us pictures of the bands available, the cuts of diamonds, blah, blah, blah, to where it was really annoying, asking us our opinions and whatnot.

She ended up with a ring so huge, she almost needed a crane to hold her wrist up! She even bragged about how much she had him spend on it

(wait for it!)


$7,500!!!!!!!

:o

Afterwards, there was a big fancy to-do for an engagement party at some fancy restaurant - Charlie Trotters or something. She had to run out and get a fancy cocktail dress and everything :rolleyes:

Wanna hear something funny? Soon after that mega-purchase, Mr. Perfect lost his job... he was a consultant with Arthur Andersen! LOL! LOL! LOL! She dumped him a month after!

When Ron asked me, it was completely INformal. I was lying on my stomach on the bed listening while he was jamming, slowly dozing off. He laid on top of me and hugged me, and asked me in my ear. :smitten: He then said how he doesn't have a lot to offer me, but he'd get me a ring anyway. We went to The Alley and got a matching pair of coffin poison rings- his obviously bigger and more manly than mine. (hehehe I know - crazy, right? hehe) How much did the set cost?


(wait for it...)

$40

Now I ask ya, which do you think was more meaningful?

Miso Vegan
04-16-2007, 06:58 PM
Chijou, I tOtally agree with 99% of what you said - especially the first paragraph - but it bugs me that these are the things that aren't getting questioned. Besides, women don't just want him to "pop the question" to signal he's ready (nevermind that the woman's been ready for ages and been stuck in limbo - talk about fear of rejection - they also want him to "pop the question" because that's what society has told us to expect for years, the fairy-tale promise.... And therefore he holds all the power in that, whether he knows it or not.

And "the situation" I provide is the norm, not just some instances. (It may not be the norm in a rather "unusual" demographic like vegans, who like to do everything differently!) Why don't women get to be In Charge of the engagement? Why is it such a mystery as to whether the man wants marriage? Why is it that the woman has to wait until he's ready, even if she's been ready for years? It's so charged with emotion and expectation, but even wanting to talk about brings accusations of being a nag or placing too much importance on the marriage (over the relationship)....

As I said in my disclaimer it's not all relationships. Times are slowly changing, and children, distance, etc bring other issues into it - but even in those relationships, even when there's been much discussion, there's still often the expectation that there will be a proposal, and it will come from him.

What's wrong with it, to me, is the inherent power given to the man and societal assumptions/expectations that few people question.

Miso Vegan
04-16-2007, 07:07 PM
She was on the DeBeers website picking her ring at work, and personally, I thought it was soooo completely superficial. She would run around the office showing us pictures of the bands available, the cuts of diamonds, blah, blah, blah, to where it was really annoying, asking us our opinions and whatnot.

She ended up with a ring so huge, she almost needed a crane to hold her wrist up! She even bragged about how much she had him spend on it

(wait for it!)


$7,500!!!!!!!


The culture around diamond rings is so bizarre and entrenched. There are many forward-thinking women still teaching their daughters not to marry a man if he can't afford at least a carat, because it shows he'll be able to support her and be responsible. :rolleyes:

The size of the diamond communicates so much - to the people who give a sh!t - but "meaningful relationship" is not part of it. It strictly communicates that he makes X amount/that she is worth X amount.

I have stones of various sizes in my ring, from my mother's brooch, but I didn't take the largest stones - that seemed tacky. Still, I had someone look at my ring and ask, "which one is the largest - I know you know!" as if that was ultimately the most important aspect. Nevermind that I might not want some gaudy outsized stone to try to "say" something, or that Nanashi and I designed our rings together, or that the stones came from a family heirloom and did not contribute to the De Beers cartel or slave labor....

doomdiva
04-16-2007, 07:24 PM
The culture around diamond rings is so bizarre and entrenched. There are many forward-thinking women still teaching their daughters not to marry a man if he can't afford at least a carat, because it shows he'll be able to support her and be responsible. :rolleyes:

The size of the diamond communicates so much - to the people who give a sh!t - but "meaningful relationship" is not part of it. It strictly communicates that he makes X amount/that she is worth X amount.

I have stones of various sizes in my ring, from my mother's brooch, but I didn't take the largest stones - that seemed tacky. Still, I had someone look at my ring and ask, "which one is the largest - I know you know!" as if that was ultimately the most important aspect. Nevermind that I might not want some gaudy outsized stone to try to "say" something, or that Nanashi and I designed our rings together, or that the stones came from a family heirloom and did not contribute to the De Beers cartel or slave labor....

Oh I'm sooo glad I'm not alone in this thinking! I already said how I LOOOVE heirloom pieces, even more when you can take one special thing and make it ANOTHER special thing! I'm not fortunate enough to have anything like that, bt I love hearing stories of others' :)

When I was first engaged, I couldn't wait to tell the world, and all the women I worked with at the restaurant (back when I was a waitress) rolled their eyes at me. One even said that he better put a diamond in there, like he was a complete loser and waste of time for not doing so! And why is it 2 months' salary, anyway? Is that supposed to tell the world to times the ring by 6 or something? LOL

I liked the fact Ronnie got one for himself, because to me it said he was just as happy and excited to tell the world of HIS engagement. The guys at the the gasket factory (where he worked at the time) probably ribbed him a bit I'm sure, but he's never been the kind of person to care about others' opinions anyway.

Meh, he may be a knuckle-dragging oaf at times, but he's MY knuckle-dragger; a Man's Man with a sweet, gooey inside :smitten:

Oh and BTW: we lost our rings soon after we were married, so it's probably a good thing we didn't drop that 2 months' salary :p We move around way too much :umm:

doomdiva
04-16-2007, 07:32 PM
Well, I don't know if I'm explaining myself very well... it's all kinda weird and twisted, and until you're in it, it's hard to even see what's so weird and twisted about it all.

You're gettin your point across just fine :) I'm with you 100%!!

Chijou_no_seiza
04-16-2007, 07:55 PM
No miso, I definitely agree with you, I was just bringing up the other side of the coin. I guess I'm so used to be around liberal people I forgot that the majority of people have women/men/relationship/marriage stereotypes whether they are aware of them or not.

And doomdiva, I love your proposal, that's so sweet. :) And I also love that your husband wanted to tell the world he was engaged too, I always wondered why the man never had a engagment ring but only the woman did... :confused:

doomdiva
04-16-2007, 08:13 PM
No miso, I definitely agree with you, I was just bringing up the other side of the coin. I guess I'm so used to be around liberal people I forgot that the majority of people have women/men/relationship/marriage stereotypes whether they are aware of them or not.

And doomdiva, I love your proposal, that's so sweet. :) And I also love that your husband wanted to tell the world he was engaged too, I always wondered why the man never had a engagment ring but only the woman did... :confused:

I swing with some of the most liberal people I've ever known, and there's still quite a lot of standard expectations out there, even if they're jazzed up a notch. There are some things that are just taken for granted, and this thread is pointing out a big one! Another thing taken as a gimme is the wedding cake. Until Queen Victoria came up with the idea, there really wasn't such a thing as a sweet, towering baked good covered in yummy icing!

Every generation starts their own traditions, so maybe 1000 years from now, the diamond engagement ring will become as much of a relic as a dowery. With so many single parents these days, even the part of the father giving the bride away and paying for the wedding itself is going by the wayside. Think about it! :)

And yeah, Ronnie is such a sweety, despite his LOUD snoring, bed-hogging, pillow-drooling, juvenile cartoon-watching, stinky feet and the giddy thrill of gas-passing ROFL! But that's all a part of being married, right? ;) (Not that *I* have any bad habits, of course! :uhoh: ) I also think he wanted his own ring too, just so we can be even-stevens, as in

"Why does SHE get to have a killer ring and I don't?" LOL!

Emiloid
04-16-2007, 09:26 PM
I :heart: this thread. :smitten:

Just had to say so. Will you marry me, thread? :silly:

mamaquilla
04-16-2007, 09:50 PM
doomdiva you and your sweetie sound like an awsome couple :happy:

Chijou_no_seiza
04-16-2007, 10:05 PM
I :heart: this thread. :smitten:

Just had to say so. Will you marry me, thread? :silly:

oh noes.

You know you are addicted to VRF when...

atouria
04-16-2007, 10:22 PM
ROFL Emiloid! :laugh:

Miso Vegan
04-16-2007, 10:25 PM
I :heart: this thread. :smitten:

Just had to say so. Will you marry me, thread? :silly:




Where's my diamond engagement ring?! No less than 1 carat, but I won't feel you truly love me unless it's 2 carats or more!



tsk tsk. See how pervasive that attitude is?? :no:


:silly:

atouria
04-16-2007, 10:40 PM
I completely see Miso's above points, but I didn't at the time of my engagment.

I knew I wanted to marry my husband and, in fact, I proposed to him about 8 months before he proposed to me. He blew me off more than turned me down and said that he would ask me when he was ready. :confused: That summer I spent 3 weeks at NTC (national training center) at Fort Irwin in California and when I got back he was waiting with a ring. (he had a sweet little set up, but I'm too lazy to type it.) Yes, diamonds and all. I didn't know about the diamond industry then.

The ring has such sentimental value that there's no way I'll be rid of it, but I won't be introducing more diamonds into my jewelry box.

bird
04-16-2007, 10:51 PM
Emiloid I thought you loved me! That's it, no more long distance 'relations' for you! :mad:

VeganXing
04-16-2007, 11:23 PM
Will you marry me, thread? :silly:
Thread: Where's my ring?

doomdiva
04-17-2007, 06:48 AM
The ring has such sentimental value that there's no way I'll be rid of it, but I won't be introducing more diamonds into my jewelry box.

As it should :) I wouldn't worry about /where/ it came from, just as one shouldn't wag their finger at an heirloom leather baseball glove or anything like that. It has very special meaning to you, and most folks have no clue about what's involved in obtaining that sparkly rock.

I think it's cool YOU did the asking, even if it didn't work out. Somebody needs to be a trendsetter, otherwise traditions aren't altered, like I was saying before ;)

doomdiva
04-17-2007, 06:49 AM
doomdiva you and your sweetie sound like an awsome couple :happy:

He's a pretty okay guy ;) Thanks hehe ;)

Althea Randolf
04-17-2007, 09:21 AM
They manufacture diamonds now. There are several jewelry stores that sell nothing but lab-manufactured jewels.

dropscone
04-17-2007, 09:33 AM
Back when I was engaged we both had rings - his was silver, mine was silver with a low quality amythyst and both cost around &#163;10 ($20) each, if I remember correctly. And I did the asking :)

Shame it didn't work out, but at least I didn't have the added pain of having to sell an expensive ring or otherwise agonise over what to do with it :)

downwithapathy
04-17-2007, 10:46 PM
Okay. I'm changing my mind.

I wear my great-grandma's ring.
Partner gets some inexpensive (but sturdy) silver dealy from a local artist. Whew.

Potential future marriage partner agrees.

Jessica
04-17-2007, 11:16 PM
I think it's cool YOU did the asking, even if it didn't work out. Somebody needs to be a trendsetter, otherwise traditions aren't altered, like I was saying before ;)

:yes: My stepmom asked my dad to marry her. He and I are on the same page on marriage. We're just kind of "eh" about it. They'd been together like 13 years when she asked him. He'd have never asked her if she didn't.

carnelian
04-17-2007, 11:20 PM
doomdiva you and your sweetie sound like an awsome couple :happy:

I have not had the pleasure of meeting Mr. doomdiva, but I can personally vouch for doomdiva's awesomeness!!! :yes: :thumbsup: :sunny:

doomdiva
04-18-2007, 06:23 PM
I have not had the pleasure of meeting Mr. doomdiva, but I can personally vouch for doomdiva's awesomeness!!! :yes: :thumbsup: :sunny:

OMG you're embarrassing me! :blush: hahaha. I dunno if he'd ever be interested in coming to one of the meetups sometime, though I /do/ ask him beforehand, and give him the leftovers when I get back... stranger things have happened ;)

doomdiva
04-18-2007, 06:26 PM
:yes: My stepmom asked my dad to marry her. He and I are on the same page on marriage. We're just kind of "eh" about it. They'd been together like 13 years when she asked him. He'd have never asked her if she didn't.

My mom lived with one of her boyfriends for almost 10 years, with me getting two brothers out of the deal ;) They never did marry, and mom got fed up from the *waiting* and moved on - I guess maybe she should have taken on the same initiative! Then again, I never really liked him anyway, so... meh.

sane-ax_addict
04-18-2007, 09:24 PM
i'm running a little behind on this thread lol

doomdiva, i just read your story. it is so AWWWWWWWW!!! that is really really sweet!

sane-ax_addict
04-18-2007, 09:28 PM
okay, i'll admit it. my wedding set has diamonds in it. BUT, in my own defense, we bought it used at a pawn shop. i also bought it before i knew the whole story about diamonds. and my rings were only $65, hubands was $35. and i would never, EVER buy diamonds again, especially from a jeweler. i prefer garnets :happy:

doomdiva
04-19-2007, 08:37 AM
Rings bought at pawn shops go along the same lines as heirloom and very much UNLIKE the girl at my office hunting on the DeBeers site ;) So, no need to defend yourself LOL

Now this is coming from the somewhat flaky side of me, so take it as you will:
---------------------------------------------
What's interesting about getting a ring from a pawn shop as opposed to heirloom is you have no idea of its history, though it's always assumed it arrived there due to some sort of unhappiness (failed marriage, theivery, and so on). Sensitive people can detect REALLY bad vibes off of just about anything, so if you're happy, then it might not be all that bad ;)

If you ever come across an item during a thrift store, flea market, consignment treasure or pawn shop excursion, I say, take the negativity out of it and add some of your personal positive mojo! :) Rocks are a natural element, even pretty, sparkly ones, and they have a tendency to absorb the energies around them.

Soooo... the easiest way to purify something like that is to place it under running water for a good hour. A running stream is best, but your faucet is just as good :) All the brackish energy will flow with the water, leaving it rather sterile and empty. It will then be up to you to fill it with good, positive energy! :)
------------------------------------------

Okay, flakey hippie dippy kosmonaut out! :rolleyes:

doomdiva
04-19-2007, 08:40 AM
i'm running a little behind on this thread lol

doomdiva, i just read your story. it is so AWWWWWWWW!!! that is really really sweet!

hehehehe... I know, and it's funny, because anyone who takes a look at him cannot see that side of him at all...

http://www.rottingcorpserecords.com/images/roncjnc.jpg - he's the one on the left with the dead girl shirt LOL!

LesMiserablesLove
04-19-2007, 02:47 PM
Unless I get my wedding rings (way in the future!) from a second-hand shop, I'll probably want to buy handcrafted wood rings. I was wondering if anyone had wood wedding rings and how you answer questions about them. I can imagine people reacting to wood rings just as they react to veganism.

atouria
04-19-2007, 04:42 PM
I'd be intrigued! I've never seen wooden rings. I bet they'd be sexy. :)

LesMiserablesLove
04-19-2007, 04:46 PM
Here are some I've found:
http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=557619 ($170)

A couple weeks ago I saw one with wood interwoven in the center, much like this ring that instead has interwoven silver. I guess use your imagination, but it was very beautiful.
http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=5154697

Chijou_no_seiza
04-19-2007, 04:56 PM
Also here (http://www.touchwoodrings.com/)are some sustainable wood rings

bluedawg
04-19-2007, 07:49 PM
Also here (http://www.touchwoodrings.com/)are some sustainable wood rings
man, some of the rings on that page are super awesome. thanks Chijou!

Flower
04-19-2007, 08:00 PM
Those wood rings are so cool!

Chijou_no_seiza
04-19-2007, 08:03 PM
hehe no problem :happy:, I wasn't going to post them in this diamond rings thread but since LML did I felt I could do it too :silly:

MercurialMary
04-19-2007, 08:05 PM
My engagement ring has a boulder opal in it, most closely resembling the stone on the bottom right, pictured here:
http://www.dadsrockshop.com/cabs/cab_boulderopal.JPG

We got our bands and my engagement ring made by a local artist. It has yellow gold around the stone, and a white gold band. I chipped it less than a year after getting it.

I also have a diamond ring, made later, from my great grandmother's engagement ring diamond in a new setting. (See, I was on topic)

Flower
04-19-2007, 08:06 PM
Beauuuutiful stone, MM!! :heart:

atouria
04-19-2007, 08:08 PM
That stone is gorgeous!!

mamaquilla
04-19-2007, 08:11 PM
Chijou that was an AWSOME site, I am in love with those rings! Especially the oak with knot,olive, and blue spruce :happy:

doomdiva
04-19-2007, 08:25 PM
http://www.touchwoodrings.com/asuejohn.jpg

Looove it!

doomdiva
04-19-2007, 08:27 PM
My engagement ring has a boulder opal in it, most closely resembling the stone on the bottom right, pictured here:
(snip pic)

We got our bands and my engagement ring made by a local artist. It has yellow gold around the stone, and a white gold band. I chipped it less than a year after getting it.

I also have a diamond ring, made later, from my great grandmother's engagement ring diamond in a new setting. (See, I was on topic)

I love stones like that - such character!

mamaquilla
04-19-2007, 08:27 PM
YES, simply georrrrrrrrrrrgous :D

yumotumo
04-19-2007, 08:58 PM
Very pretty! But also very soft and delicate! :)Be gentle;)

LesMiserablesLove
04-19-2007, 08:59 PM
hehe no problem , I wasn't going to post them in this diamond rings thread but since LML did I felt I could do it too

:D Well, the thread has has an ethical perspective, so I figured I'd take it a little further.

By the way, I've been to that other website. I think the ring with interwoven wood I mentioned before was from that website.

LesMiserablesLove
04-19-2007, 09:00 PM
http://warmthofwood.blogspot.com/2006/06/braided-juniper-heart-wood-ring.html

Found it!

Chijou_no_seiza
04-19-2007, 09:03 PM
yeah they link to there from the page I linked to. The main page is http://warmthofwood.blogspot.com/ which shows lotsa current and new rings :)