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beka
07-20-2004, 04:05 PM
i was the first vegan of my tight group of three friends, and now, unfortunately, the last. about three years ago, my two best friends decided become vegan. it was so much fun! we'd cook together and host potlucks and invite all of our other vegan friends.

about a year and a half ago, friend #1 decided that people were meant to eat meat. but, she continued being vegan. then, she got a job at the local health food store. the health food store people are very anti-vegan. most of them are former vegans, and talk about how unhealthy they were. so, now she eats fish, purchases (free-range) eggs, and organic milk. my guess is that (free-range) beef is next. why not?! friend #1 claimed that she never really wanted to be vegan, but just felt pressured because all of her friends were vegan. sigh.

and, about a year ago, friend #2 started slipping. she stopped looking at ingredients and would say "what i don't know can't hurt me!".. i'd often interrupt with a "do you know that has gelatin?"..she'd then promptly stop eating it and say "oh my god i had no clue!". yeah, right. well, now she just doesn't care. she will buy anything that's vegetarian, not caring whether or not it has eggs or milk. ok. i can handle that. she got lazy. it's not my problem. but, NOW, i find out from friend #1 that friend #2 has started eating FISH! i am so surprised..disappointed....DISGUISTED!

they can make their own decisions, but..i'm just really sad. now, when we have dinner parties, they'll make non-vegan foods when they could EASILY make them vegan. they'll say "cmon beka...it doesn't matter..." i can't believe i hear such things from people who used to be VERY vegan. (we wouldn't even eat refined sugar!)

has anyone else been through this?

i havent been the perfect vegan all of these 6+ years...but i'm still all about the cause, and it sucks so much to see people so close to me stop caring. blah! well i'm kind of glad i'm moving...i'm moving to a vegan-friendly town (Tallahassee, Florida....it has soul veg, a vegetarian krishna buffet, sunday vegan hot brunch at the AWESOME health food store, etc...yay!) where i already have a couple vegan friends.

oh, i have a question for all of you...do any of you believe we were made to eat meat?

bumblebee
07-20-2004, 04:34 PM
I think that we evolved in a way that allows us a choice in what we eat. I tend to believe that humans can eat small amounts of meat and remain very healthy, but I don't believe that we need meat. I choose not to eat meat for ethical reasons, though.
I think dairy is just plain unhealthy.
It's sad to watch your friends back up. I had one friend go from vegan to vegetarian and it bites. It's lonely at the top. :D

Lacykitten
07-20-2004, 05:00 PM
I think we were meant to eat meat when our ancestors moved out of good vegan climates and NEEDED to eat it to survive harsh winters, when vegetables didn't last throughout the winter or give them everything they needed to survive healthily through them.

I think it was part of evolution. We needed to do so, we were meant to do so. Now, we don't need to and we're not meant to.

I'm really sorry to hear about your friends. I don't know what I'd do if I was in the same situation... I guess that's one reason I'm glad a bunch of my friends didn't go vegan.. selfish I know.. but I don't have to watch anyone stop caring.

spacehippy
07-20-2004, 05:16 PM
It is disappointing, but getting mad about it will probably only hurt your friendships and turn off your friends from veganism even more. We need to educate without turning people away, and this will be easier by showing people how cool vegans and veganism are! Plus, any step away from a meat based diet should be encouraged.

gladcow
07-20-2004, 07:14 PM
I think that we were wonderfully made to be able to adapt to many circumstances in order to survive. I think ideally meat is not needed, and that is why I don't eat it (because I don't need to). Now, if I were in some harsh climate and had no other options, there would be some serious thinking going on about survival, etc. But I believe that we DON'T need meat.

garn
07-20-2004, 10:03 PM
I dated this girl for a good while and she would never eat meat in front of me, and agreed with vegetarianism but didn't practise it outside of being around me. Then a while after we broke up (remained friends) i found out she went vegetarian. Which was kinda surprising because she never did it while we were dating (which would've been easier for her because her primary group of friends included me so she wouldn't need to worry about being in non-vegetarian-friendly situations, and I was now 300 miles away (college) so I couldn't help her along or anything) But I figured it was a way of her deciding to do it for herself, rather than for a boy.

And now she is vegetarian no longer, and she even ate a hot dog in front of me.

I don't make a big deal about it to her because a) it's her decision b) we're not as close as we once were c) I don't think she feels great about giving it up, I think she did it due to family disagreeing with it.

But it still is sad to see someone "quit"

thecatspajamas
07-20-2004, 11:01 PM
oh, i have a question for all of you...do any of you believe we were made to eat meat?

For this, I defer to my trusty Why Vegan pamphlet for a quote by Peter Cheeke, PhD:

"Do we, as humans, having an ability to reason and to communicate abstract ideas verbally and in writing, and to form ethical and moral judgments using the accumulated knowledge of the ages, have the right to take the lives of other sentient organisms, particularly when we are not forced to do so by hunger or dietary need, but rather do so for the somewhat frivolous reason that we like the taste of meat?* In essence, should we know better?"

So in my view, yes we were made to eat meat, but we shouldn't because we are capable of realizing it is wrong.

beka
07-20-2004, 11:14 PM
thanks for all of your replies so far! i forgot to mention that my friends believe that, not only were we made to eat meat, but that we cannot be healthy without it. or, at least, without fish/omegas. sigh. there ARE plant-based omegas, but that's not good enough for them. i don't like discussing this with them because i feel so outnumbered and i get frustrated..i don't want to sound like i'm taking this all personally. :confused:

Dandelion
07-21-2004, 01:21 AM
for some sobering information on omegas n such check out Michael Greger's website (http://www.veganmd.org/) or this previous discussion (http://www.plantbasedpeople.com/showthread.php?t=3700).



thanks for all of your replies so far! i forgot to mention that my friends believe that, not only were we made to eat meat, but that we cannot be healthy without it. or, at least, without fish/omegas. sigh. there ARE plant-based omegas, but that's not good enough for them. i don't like discussing this with them because i feel so outnumbered and i get frustrated..i don't want to sound like i'm taking this all personally. :confused:

Stitches
07-21-2004, 03:27 AM
oh, i have a question for all of you...do any of you believe we were made to eat meat?

^I don't. I could get into the biological evidence against such a theory, but it's late and I've been visiting my therapist (Dr. J. Daniels).

I personally have never seen a vegan backslide, but I know a few veggies who have fallen from grace. My roommate, for example (I love her like a sister, I really do, but she doesn't quite get it) grew up on a "beef cattle" ranch and when she was growing up she was veg. because all those cows were like pets to her (and, of course, she didn't want to eat them) and even though she told me that cows are like 600-pound, sorta-sluggish puppy dogs, she'll eat cow flesh now because it didn't come from anyone she knew. Sad, eh?

stoffer
07-21-2004, 08:22 AM
I don't think we were 'meant' to do anything in particular, unless you can equate the consequences of evolution with some kind of meaning. If people start coming out with the ''it's natural'' argument, it may help to point out that our so called 'natural' instincts are constantly conflicting; therefore if you try to live your life constantly by what you think is natural, you will soon find you will start to contradict yourself. For example: someone might think it is natural to eat meat because they like the taste, but at the same time they would 'naturally' feel pity for an animal if they saw it being killed before it ended up on their plate; and if they liked the taste of meat they would probably like the taste of human flesh aswell, but there aren't many people who think it natural to eat other people. And what of contraception, or homosexuality. Are they to be seen as unnatural if this philosophy is to be followed?
As humans we have evolved a brain that gives us the ability to experience empathy for other species that we share the planet with. We understand morality, which I believe is a good thing. That is why I am vegan, and the question of 'nature' is beside the point.