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jenbizagogo
02-23-2003, 02:33 PM
What can I say about Chrissie Hynde other than I just adore her. Both her music and her mind is beautiful. She has been such a reliable animal rights activist and isn't afraid to put herself out on a limb for the animals:

http://www.wholenote.com/default.asp?iTarget=http%3A//www.wholenote.com/news/item.asp%3Fi%3D165

vegetalienelan
05-12-2009, 08:53 AM
ditto :silly:

foodlovingvegan
05-12-2009, 12:34 PM
Wonderful!

ganymeder
05-12-2009, 12:55 PM
I hate to be the one to rain on this, but exactly how much good do stunts like these do? I mean, the store got publicity, they'll probably be reimbursed for the damages, and they made AR activists look like a bunch of violent destructive people (violence against property not people but still).

Also, targetting leather from India...how is that any better or worse than regular leather? It seems a bit inconsistent. Whether or not the animals are treated better, they're still murdered for their skin.

It seems like if they wanted to draw attention to this, they would have done better with a conventional protest or a massive leafletting campaign urging people to boycott. I mean, still inconsistent, but at least it's not violent.

I'm sorry. I do like a lot of things about Chryssie Hynde, but I don't think this is a good thing. :(

grog
05-12-2009, 12:59 PM
I'm pretty sure its all blown over by now.

ganymeder
05-12-2009, 01:07 PM
Oh crap. My bad! I saw this under "new posts" but didn't look at the date of the first post. Sorry!

VeganArtist
05-12-2009, 01:21 PM
I agree with gany. Even though this was posted back in 2003, PETA is still pulling the same stunts. PETA gets all of these celebs to hop on board with their crazy protests, and they do it because PETA is the most mainstream organization out there disguised as an animal "rights" group. They might think they are doing something eye-opening, but I think that this kind of thing often does more harm than good. The whole idea that one leather or fur or <insert animal use> is worse than another, confuses people into thinking that some types of animal use are okay, while others are not. Vegan advocacy and education is the better way to go if the goal is getting people to see that all animal use is unethical. I'm sure this has been discussed ad nauseam, but I just wanted to make you actually throw up. ;)

ganymeder
05-12-2009, 01:22 PM
:)

foodlovingvegan
05-12-2009, 03:11 PM
PETA may do some crazy stunts but they do it for the animals. Honestly, as much as vegans tend to dislike PETA (which I don't really understand), PETA does a lot of good. They're not afraid to look a bit "extreme" to bring attention to the movement. Sure, maybe some people will think they're violent, but the fact is, if it weren't for PETA, there would be many fewer vegans and vegetarians. It's these "extremist" tactics that we have to thank for getting them in the news and letting people know about animal rights. It's not PETA's fault that the news doesn't report on serious issues unless they are made entertaining somehow; they're just doing what needs to be done.

The ironic thing is that I don't believe most people who are vegetarian or vegan today would be that way if not for PETA. Even if you simply had a friend who was vegan, your veganism is still indirectly a result of PETA's campaigning.

That is why I support PETA's protests. The more attention the cause gets, and the more common it becomes that PETA and animal rights are in the public eye, the more people become vegan and the more animals get saved. The goal is to make it a trendy, mainstream thing.

Once 35% of America is vegan, a dramatic shift will occur.

ganymeder
05-12-2009, 03:27 PM
PETA may do some crazy stunts but they do it for the animals. Honestly, as much as vegans tend to dislike PETA (which I don't really understand), PETA does a lot of good. They're not afraid to look a bit "extreme" to bring attention to the movement. Sure, maybe some people will think they're violent, but the fact is, if it weren't for PETA, there would be many fewer vegans and vegetarians. It's these "extremist" tactics that we have to thank for getting them in the news and letting people know about animal rights. It's not PETA's fault that the news doesn't report on serious issues unless they are made entertaining somehow; they're just doing what needs to be done.

The ironic thing is that I don't believe most people who are vegetarian or vegan today would be that way if not for PETA. Even if you simply had a friend who was vegan, your veganism is still indirectly a result of PETA's campaigning.

That is why I support PETA's protests. The more attention the cause gets, and the more common it becomes that PETA and animal rights are in the public eye, the more people become vegan and the more animals get saved. The goal is to make it a trendy, mainstream thing.

Once 35&#37; of America is vegan, a dramatic shift will occur.

I'm sorry, but I couldn't disagree more. Not all publicity is good publicity. I had a friend who was vegan, and one of the things I used to think (honestly) was that I didn't want to be associated with those "PETA nuts." (Not referring to my friend) The fact that they struck me as crazy gave me an excuse to not think about my actions. Personally, I think I would have become vegan much sooner if NOT for PETA's campaigns.

They may do some good, but I believe they do more evil. Even discounting their nutty and (many times intentionally) offensive campaigns (especially targetting children), they KILL animals! I cannot and willnot support an AR organization that kills the animals they're supposed to representing.

And lastly, they claim to be an AR group but if you look at their campaigns they're really AW.

VeganArtist
05-12-2009, 03:58 PM
It is true: I became vegan, in part, because of PETA. They were pretty much the main source of info on the internet when I became vegan four years ago. As I said, they are the most mainstream organization out there. However, I became vegan not because of their attention-seeking campaigns, but because of the educational information about veganism on their multiple websites. The educational aspect of PETA is fine. However, if they are serious about their claim of being an animal "rights" group, then they should become one. That would mean that they would need to significantly reform their campaigns and website materials. Instead of promoting "happy" meat or less meat, and condemning fur and certain types of leather, they should be explaining and exemplifying why it's not okay to use sentient beings at all, including women.

ganymeder
05-12-2009, 03:59 PM
Instead of promoting "happy" meat or less meat, and condemning fur and certain types of leather, they should be explaining and exemplifying why it's not okay to use sentient beings, including women.

Exactly.

foodlovingvegan
05-12-2009, 04:30 PM
Yes, but a website full of information that gets no hits doesn't do any good at all. They have to get attention and bring people to the website to make a difference.

foodlovingvegan
05-12-2009, 04:31 PM
they KILL animals! I cannot and willnot support an AR organization that kills the animals they're supposed to representing.

On this point, I totally agree with you.

As far as their campaigns towards children go, I don't have a problem with them. Honesty is important, and kids deserve the truth. If parents don't want their kids to know what they're eating, they shouldn't be feeding it to them.

ganymeder
05-12-2009, 04:43 PM
On this point, I totally agree with you.

As far as their campaigns towards children go, I don't have a problem with them. Honesty is important, and kids deserve the truth. If parents don't want their kids to know what they're eating, they shouldn't be feeding it to them.

Honesty is one thing. Scary disturbing imagery targetting children telling them their parents are murderers is another. If anyone handed my child one of those pamphlets, I'd belt them. And I AM vegan.

Also, there are plenty of ways to get publicity other than making an ass out of yourself. (Ass as in "butt" not "donkey" because donkey's are great) :p

foodlovingvegan
05-12-2009, 04:46 PM
Honesty is one thing. Scary disturbing imagery

You mean honest imagery of what they're really supporting when they eat meat?


targetting children telling them their parents are murderers is another.

But their parents are murderers, if they intentionally end others' lives. That's honesty.


If anyone handed my child one of those pamphlets, I'd belt them. And I AM vegan.

I think and hope this part was a joke. I don't think you'd actually assault someone for handing out controversial literature to your kids.


Also, there are plenty of ways to get publicity other than making an ass out of yourself. (Ass as in "butt" not "donkey" because donkey's are great) :p

I like donkeys. :)

vegetalienelan
05-12-2009, 04:52 PM
Gosh I opened a can of worms be reactivating this long dead thread....

I can understand both points of view, and I no longer wish to be quite so ...ahem... proactive as I might once have been, but I figure that in every movement there are some advantages to some 'dirty' edges. It's the way of the world.

I certainly don't go with PeTA's euthanasing, but I'd still rather be on their side than the big Corps who do MUCH worse things all the time and almost the whole of society doesn't even bats an eye lid...

And even though I'm not one to support celebs I think of all of them at least Chrissie Hynde can't be said to have jumped on a band wagon.

ganymeder
05-12-2009, 04:54 PM
You mean honest imagery of what they're really supporting when they eat meat?
http://www.furisdead.com/page/mommykills.gif



But their parents are murderers, if they intentionally end others' lives. That's honesty.
But there's such a thing as tact. Most of us weren't raised vegan. There's a certain disconnect, and pamphlets (like above) do nothing but try to drive a wedge between parents and children. You can be honest without being a butthead.



I think and hope this part was a joke. I don't think you'd actually assault someone for handing out controversial literature to your kids.
Well, maybe verbal lashing would be more accurate. But they wouldn't get away without hearing from me!


I like donkeys. :)
Me too.

Just responding to the post. If you want to debate this further, I'd be happy too, but I don't think we should take this off topic much more. Maybe you could pm me. :)

ganymeder
05-12-2009, 04:57 PM
I certainly don't go with PeTA's euthanasing, but I'd still rather be on their side than the big Corps who do MUCH worse things all the time and almost the whole of society doesn't even bats an eye lid...
.

I don't think it's a choice of Peta or corporations. You don't NEED to support anyone you think is acting unethically. I mean, I realize there's a certain amount of overlap (you can't be sure of what everything is made of or comes from) but there's more than 2 choices.

foodlovingvegan
05-12-2009, 05:25 PM
http://www.furisdead.com/page/mommykills.gif


That specific pamphlet shows the true horrors of fur.
http://www.furisdead.com/pdfs/mommykills.pdf

Everything the pamphlet says is completely true. It may not be the most comforting pamphlet but it is very honest, and kids deserve to know how their parents' choices affect others.

The pictures in that pamphlet aren't even that horrifying; the image of scared raccoons in a cage is nothing compared to an image of their skin being ripped off of them while they are still conscious.



But there's such a thing as tact. Most of us weren't raised vegan. There's a certain disconnect, and pamphlets (like above) do nothing but try to drive a wedge between parents and children. You can be honest without being a butthead.

You're right, the pamphlet doesn't have much tact, but neither do the fur "farmers" who abuse animals.


Just responding to the post. If you want to debate this further, I'd be happy too, but I don't think we should take this off topic much more. Maybe you could pm me. :)

You're right, we've pushed this thread off topic. Alright. :)