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View Full Version : Thermomix, blenders, and the like



David J. James
03-02-2012, 08:49 AM
A couple of questions - first one is whether anyone out there has a Thermomix and if so do you think it's value for money?

Second thing is, whether the using of blenders on fruit and vegetables can impair the enzymes and other nutritional benefits? I can't see why they should, but one seemingly well informed person who was in the team I was working with last week said she'd read studies saying that blending food can harm the enzymes and reduce the benefit. Can that be so with a simple household blender?

Mahk
03-02-2012, 12:44 PM
Enzymes are important to all living organisms from a intra-cellular level all the way up to an organ system level, however dietary intake of "enzymes" is completely unimportant. All the enzymes that we use we manufacture in our bodies and none of the enzymes in our food are ever used directly. [This is just one of the fundamental fallacies of the "raw food" movement which generally has little basis in evidence based science, although there are some things they spew which are partly true.] Everything we eat, enzymes included, are broken down by strong stomach acids and other digestive, um, enzymes into smaller building blocks which we then, later, reassemble into various proteins, some of which are enzymes, and other compounds to sustain life.

There's no recommended dietary intake value for "enzymes", like there are for vitamins, minerals, protein, etc., because we need not concern ourselves with it.

Further reading regarding enzyme woo:
http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/PhonyAds/mp.html

""Food enzymes" [found in our food] are not needed by the body, either for digestion or for any other purpose."

-Dr Stephen Barrett, M.D.

also:

http://www.drfuhrman.com/faq/question.aspx?sid=16&qindex=4

I don't know much about blenders but my $20 one I bought at a hardware store, a few decades ago, seems perfectly adequate and I can't really think of any way it could be improved upon, except perhaps if it was "self cleaning", but I doubt that exists.;) [My food processing needs are done with another machine.]

Edit to add: $1400 for a blender and it wont self clean !? Does it come with a personal assistant to turn it on... and then clean it?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124112844457074685.html

Emiloid
03-05-2012, 11:10 AM
I don't have a super-blender, but to answer your question about enzymes... from what I understand, heat can damage them. Maceration alone shouldn't be a problem. Of course, some blenders offer the option to heat foods, like to make soup. Is there any way you could look up the studies your friend referred to, David?

Mahk
03-05-2012, 09:32 PM
There are no "studies" just like there are no published studies backing astrology, homeopathy, or macrobiotics. All of these things are loosely constructed followings, often of some particular loon, based on theories they concocted, for the most part, completely out of the blue, that millions of people have latched on to and go by as a way of living, often regurgitating the founding guru's philosophies in books, newsletters, blogs, and forum posts. The practitioners of these regimens are simply believing in a faith, not an evidence based branch of science and medicine with published papers or studies to consult for specifics.

The master guru who founded homeopathy was Samuel Hahnemann from the 1800's. Macrobiotics was based on the teachings of an ancient Japanese medicine man. Well, ancient if you count post WWII as "ancient". His name was George Ohsawa [a name he concocted; it is from the French "oh, ša va", meaning "I'm doing well", as in a reply to "How are you?"]. Enzyme Nutrition's guru is Dr. Edward Howell, who supposedly wrote three books, The Status of Food Enzymes in Digestion and Metabolism (1946?), and Enzyme Nutrition which is a condensed version of an earlier work by the same name, but only the original work "has about 700 pages and is approximately 160,000 words long and contains 695 references to the world’s scientific literature as well as 47 tables."* but nobody seems to be able to find that version to check his references. Perhaps he misplaced all the known copies in the many decades that he peddled various "enzyme supplements" to make his fortune? Hmmm...

Do any of these guru's have published papers in peer reviewed journals? Nope. Not a one. Since only they seem to be able to see and measure the "life force energy" they speak of, found in, for instance, raw food , certain combinations of food with the right "yin and yang" [macrobiotics], or dilutions of compounds in water, claimed to be medicinal, that were so extreme they no longer contained any actual [I]molecules of said compound, (but still supposedly had he "memory" of it) [homeopathy], we can only consult the founding gurus, Samuel, George, and Edward, regarding things like "blenders"...but they are now all dead.

Perhaps real science and medicine knows all these regimens work perfectly well, but they keep it from us in their efforts to keep us sick and perpetually returning as paying customers, ie they are motivated by greed. :rolleyes: If only I had a nickle for every time I've heard that argument, I'd be rich.

*Source of quote (http://www.enzyme-facts.com/dr-edward-howell.html)

Also see my signature, below:

mistreat
03-05-2012, 11:19 PM
im personally getting sick of all the pseudoscience health bullshit myself. and what really bothers me about it is that it seems to be very present in the vegetarian community especially. im not sure why, but it is. i also believe it's one of the main reasons why some vegetarians go back to eating meat and then bitching about ''the dangers of veganism'' in there little WordPress blogs. rhys southan is a prefect example of this. im not going to get to much into rhys southan because then it would just be three page rant about how much of a douch bag i think he is.
i got a little off topic there, but im gonna try to get back to my point. the reason why pseudo health hurts veganism is because it gives out very ill informed advice regarding vegan nutrition. so it's no suprise that some vegans go back to eating meat after they'v experienced health problems because they followed some pseudo guro's guidelines for nutrition. just how i see it.

Dandelion
03-06-2012, 12:27 AM
rhys southan is a prefect example of this. im not going to get to much into rhys southan because then it would just be three page rant about how much of a douch bag i think he is.
Rhys is my internet friend* and I consider him a hero of sorts. His blog Let Them Eat Meat (http://letthemeatmeat.com/) is an insider's critique of veganism and he makes fair and excellent points. Veganism failed him and it is failing others. It would be prudent for vegans to take note of his arguments and avoid dismissing him with such ad hominems if they want to stay relevant.

*Disclosure: He interviewed me (http://letthemeatmeat.com/post/11156650684/interview-with-an-anti-veganism-vegan-dave-d) for CarpeVegan: Why Veganism Must Be Abolished: an Interview with Vegan Represent Founder Dave D (http://www.carpevegan.com/?p=3336)

Mahk
03-06-2012, 01:41 AM
P.S. [to my last post] The magic temperature that makes the enzymes' "life force" mojo go away is (supposedly) "118 degrees" (for 30 minutes), at least so says the master, Dr Edward Howell himself, in his second Enzyme Nutrition book [the one that says "see my first book, if you can find it, for my references"] you can read a preview of at Google Books. (http://books.google.com/books?id=h9EgG8O7GgIC&pg=PA72&lpg=PA72&dq=edward+howell+118&source=bl&ots=li6v1byP7j&sig=86YONC9a2hlPU5FGtVtxe38eZac&hl=en&sa=X&ei=57hVT9LoJun00gG7s62xCg&ved=0CCIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false) Might he have used microscope to examine the molecules' integrity? Oh no, not at all!

This 118 degrees Fahrenheit "discovery", he brags, is based on his development of a "special electrothermotherapy immersion apparatus to apply high temperature treatment to specific parts of the body to stimulate local enzyme activity". [see p70 for details] (and also by testing the germination of heated seeds).

So I guess his convoluted logic is, to paraphrase, "whatever temperature makes protoplasm, "live human flesh", die (he claims it will blister at 118/half hour), is also the same temperature that makes the "life force enzymes" go away when we (foolishly) heat our foods... Hmm, I would think even the lowest setting of my cheapo blender would also kill human flesh, so I guess it follows that any degree of blending will also destroy the "life force enzymes" in food.

mistreat
03-06-2012, 01:48 AM
the reason why i called rhys a douche(i probably should have used a different word) is because like one commenter said on another website(don't remember the name of the website) :''he's like a guy who can't get over his ex girlfriend''. and that's kind of how i see him and a lot other of these ''ex vegans'' to. they tend to be very repetitive in my opinion

Dandelion
03-06-2012, 12:29 PM
the reason why i called rhys a douche(i probably should have used a different word) is because like one commenter said on another website(don't remember the name of the website) :''he's like a guy who can't get over his ex girlfriend''. and that's kind of how i see him and a lot other of these ''ex vegans'' to. they tend to be very repetitive in my opinion
That doesn't sound like a fair critique. I don't understand how he's been repetitive. He's been covering many diverse subject areas from personal interviews to philosophy to nutrition.

mistreat
03-06-2012, 12:42 PM
well sorry if my reply offended you in anyway, that wasn't my intention. and perhaps i was being a tad biased, so sorry about that too. i dont really want to discuss this any further because i don't feel like this particular thread is the place for it. plus i hate it when threads go completely off topic anyway.

Dandelion
03-06-2012, 01:08 PM
well sorry if my reply offended you in anyway, that wasn't my intention. and perhaps i was being a tad biased, so sorry about that too. i dont really want to discuss this any further because i don't feel like this particular thread is the place for it. plus i hate it when threads go completely off topic anyway.

I'm not offended, but obviously you are by Rhys. Personal attacks like that only betray a lack of confidence in your own vegan underpinnings. It confirms my own suspicions of the uselessness of veganism so hey, if anything, I'm tickled! But yes we are off topic so... MAGIC BLENDER ENZYMES!

mistreat
03-06-2012, 03:08 PM
i don't think veganism is useless, like you say. what i do think is useless is trying to be the ''best vegan you can be'' . to me that's just really pointless. there's no such thing as a prefect vegan, unless of course you can by a farmhouse out in the country and grow own food and make all of your own personal care products and cleaning products. oh but wait, then you'll have to worry about killing the little buggies while your harvesting your food, dammit!
my point is that veganism(to me anyway) is about doing what you possibly can reduce animal suffering and exploitation, plain and simple.so i dont think promoting veganism is useless.

Lentil
03-06-2012, 06:44 PM
Your own stomach acids and natural digestive enzymes are going to be a lot more harmful to the enzymes in food than a blender. Trying to break up enzymes with a blender would be like trying to cut packing peanuts with an axe. That's not even the right scale -- the enzymes would be much smaller compared to a blender blade in the analogy, but you get the idea. Most of them will just get jostled around, not damaged.

As Mahk says, there is no reason to think that ingesting enzymes is beneficial in any way, unless we're talking about specially made enzymes for medical supplementation (for people with pancreatic insufficiency). Enzymes need time to work, and there is very little chance they would do anything useful on the short trip from the mouth to the stomach where they would be inactivated.

mistreat
03-06-2012, 10:57 PM
as far as blenders destroying the enzymes in fruits and vegetables goes, iv actually heard the opposite. i remember reading some where that blending veggies and fruits breaks down their cellular walls, thus making the making their nutrients more easily absorbed? i don't know it was something like that. i have no idea if this is actually true or not, i think i read it on one of those raw foodist website's ,so it's probably not, but who knows. i'll probably do a little more research into that claim later on.

Mahk
03-06-2012, 11:45 PM
Total and complete pulverization of one's food, either through the Fletcher method (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horace_Fletcher) (extended mastication) or in our modern times, a blender, is a very important first step in proper digestion and optimal nutrient absorption. It increases the (effective) bio-available nutrient density of one's food and helps release the nanotherapeutic coupling bonds of peptides (http://www.nanotherapeutics.com/nanotechnology.php), which hold the food together and helps vitalize our immune systems, along with addressing blood disorders.

Just ask Henry James, Mark Twain, Upton Sinclair, and John D. Rockefeller who all practised the Fletcher Method...;)

Mahk
03-08-2012, 12:56 AM
I guess my last post was a little early; April fools day is 3 weeks away. I was just pointing out the same devious trick the "enzyme" people pull. They throw in a lot of tangential side issues [regarding real enzymes, that matter] as red herrings and hopefully confuse the average person, which might not be well versed in how real enzymes function and what they really do. [They have absolutely no significance to healthy dietary intake.]