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View Full Version : So where do people think eggs come from?



Mahk
11-19-2011, 01:42 AM
I watched this video at Huffington Post (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/18/mcdonalds-animal-cruelty_n_1101519.html), which the ABC segment I watched previously called "...too graphic, so we can't show you on television." and I'm wondering: Do most average folk (not us) watching this really think this is an anomaly and that egg producers #1,#2,#3, and #4 ahead of Sparboe, (which is the #5 largest) don't have all these same things going on? Get real!

I read the comments after the video and notice people who say "Go vegan if you don't like this" get no thumbs up. I guess people are clinging to a distorted reality of "happy chickens" they were taught in grade school.:mad:

This is the ABC segment which I saw previously to the Huffington Post bit:
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/mcdonalds-dumps-mcmuffin-egg-factory-health-concerns/story?id=14976054

Dandelion
11-19-2011, 11:01 AM
I read the comments after the video and notice people who say "Go vegan if you don't like this" get no thumbs up.
And why should they? "Going vegan" to fix the problem is a bit extreme for most. That like saying "cars kill people so don't ride in one (some won't even walk on streets)" or "cars cause pollution so don't buy one". In the former, we mandated seat belts and other safety precautions, in the latter, manufacturers are trying to placate their market with better mileage and electric cars. People see these critters as food machines. Telling them to give up their beloved food for a fixable concern of production does not follow.

Mahk
11-19-2011, 11:53 AM
People see these critters as food machines. Telling them to give up their beloved food for a fixable concern of production does not follow.

Since you seem to feel you have a better perspective of their actual beliefs than I do, please answer for me this following question. How do they feel about the debeaking of the birds, shown, using the singeing hot blade?

A. "That's odd, I wonder why they show this accepted and necessary process in this exposť video of Sparboe, as if this is not a standard practice at pretty much all factory farms, accounting for, perhaps, 95% of all US egg production? And implying it is in some way 'Wrong' ? "

B. "Oh my god! Look what they do at Sparboe! I want all MY eggs to come from the OTHER farms, since this one uses this unusual and cruel treatment, that I certainly don't feel comfortable funding! I'm glad McDonalds and Target are dumping Sparboe so when I eat my EggMcMuffin I'll be happy knowing the chicken that laid the egg was not purposely mutilated!"

C. other {please explain}

Dandelion
11-19-2011, 01:41 PM
Since you seem to feel you have a better perspective of their actual beliefs than I do, please answer for me this following question.
Actually I'm not sure how people feel about anything. I'm saying that it's not a logical conclusion to give up something entirely just because there's a production issue with a particular producer.

Mahk
11-19-2011, 02:19 PM
"Particular producer"? They are naive.

If one is of the mind that debeaking is fundamentally wrong, and that its use is endemic to pretty much the entire factory farm egg industry, not just this particular producer, then the logical conclusion would be to stop being a party to it by funding it with egg purchases.

Therefore, I think "B", [which I saw is how you initially responded], makes the most sense to me (as well) as to how they rationalize what they do.

They have to see it as an isolated incident, or their fantasy of how things are crumbles.

Dandelion
11-19-2011, 02:42 PM
"Particular producer"?

If one is of the mind that debeaking is fundamentally wrong, and that its use is endemic to pretty much the entire factory farm egg industry, not just this particular producer, then the logical conclusion would be to stop being a party to it by funding it with egg purchases.

It's possible to get eggs from chickens without debeaking. Buying eggs from those who don't debeak is the logical conclusion, not giving up all animal products.

Mahk
11-19-2011, 03:08 PM
not giving up all animal products

And why should they? "Going vegan" to fix the problem is a bit extreme for most.
Instead of "Go Vegan" I guess I should of said more specifically, "No more eggs. Done." as Youtube commenter JRAYNEM put it and has, at the time of my post, 144 thumbs up, below this video:
http://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=r6E8H3C1CrU

Mahk
11-19-2011, 03:36 PM
It's possible to get eggs from chickens without debeaking.Is that what they think? For the largest egg consumer in the US, McDonalds? Where?
---

In January 2003 Consumer Reports noted, "When we visited one free-range chicken farm a few years ago, we found a penned, 10x30-foot patch of dirt topped with chicken manure and grass." The USDA hasn't established criteria for the size of the "range" or the amount of space per bird, so things can get nearly as crowded outside as inside. Free-range chickens are typically debeaked, just like the caged kind, and the males are killed as chicks, since they don't lay eggs.
[emphasis mine]

http://www.straightdope.com/images/art/2003/031121.gif

Source for quote and picture:
The Straight Dope (http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2480/are-cage-free-chickens-really-better).

I doubt if one combined the entire output of every single non-debeaking farm in the US, you'd have enough to meet McD's demand.

Dandelion
11-19-2011, 04:06 PM
Instead of "Go Vegan" I guess I should of said more specifically, "No more eggs. Done." as Youtube commenter JRAYNEM put it and has, at the time of my post, 144 thumbs up, below this video:
http://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=r6E8H3C1CrU
Yup, that would more sense or do what the hippies do and do backyard chickens or find happy farms.

Dandelion
11-19-2011, 04:14 PM
Is that what they think?
Again, I cannot know what they think. If it's an issue of McDonalds a consumer can not purchase McDonalds products or specifically their egg products.


For the largest egg consumer in the US, McDonalds? Where?
I doubt if one combined the entire output of every single non-debeaking farm in the US, you'd have enough to meet McD's demand.
You don't think the market, driven by the largest egg consumer, will find a way? Vegan activists try to paint people into an ethical but really they're just being short-sighted and naive. They are helping the market create products people feel better about purchasing. If it means chickens stop getting debeaked but people still kill them, so be it. That's not my fight though, more power to them.

Mahk
11-19-2011, 06:55 PM
You don't think the market, driven by the largest egg consumer, will find a way?
No, I don't.

Debeaking has been around since the 1930s and I don't see it going away any time soon. It keeps eggs a tiny fraction of the price they would be without it and arguably increases egg safety, to boot.

Dandelion
11-20-2011, 10:45 PM
No, I don't.

Debeaking has been around since the 1930s and I don't see it going away any time soon. It keeps eggs a tiny fraction of the price they would be without it and arguably increases egg safety, to boot.
Why should they have done any different? Efficiency is a natural order in capitalism. What market pressures has the egg industry resisted to keep them from innovating product to meet market demands?

Mahk
11-21-2011, 12:08 AM
? :confused:


You don't think the market, driven by the largest egg consumer, will find a way?

I took that to mean, "a way to meet McDonald's huge egg demand, yet stop debeaking?", but then after I answer why I don't see that happening any time soon, you come back with:


Why should they have done any different? Efficiency is a natural order in capitalism.

Huh? :umm: If you already knew the answer was (paraphrased) "Because debeaking is efficient, and McDonalds prioritizes cheap eggs", why did you ask the question in the first place? :confused: Strike that. I withdraw the question.

I am clearly not getting (comprehending) your actual stance or what your questions mean, so I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to leave them unanswered [assuming they weren't rhetorical]. I see this conversation going nowhere, so I'm done with this thread.

Peas out.

Dandelion
11-21-2011, 09:07 PM
? :confused:


What I was trying to say is that there hasn't been the need to treat chickens better especially when to do so eats into profits. When people complain about this and stop buying product the supplier will respond. One of the ways they can respond is by creating a solution to solve the dilemma where chickens are not treated well. How could anybody be so bold as to claim they know that there cannot be a technology to overcome this hurdle? We got lab-grown meat (http://www.vancouversun.com/life/Petri+dish+meat+coming+dinner+table/5701714/story.html) being worked on for chrissakes not to mention simply "free-range" and the like. It'll get "happier" and "happier" for animals the more consumers become concerned. Eggs from happy chickens, wouldn't that be great?